Hat Renovation by Art Fawcett

[tonyb]

Oh, I see our friend Fig went back and deleted the thread wherein he laid out his experience. Without that post, my above post might leave one scratching his or her head.

 

[tonyb]

Yes.

I was asking because I have seen reference to soaking hats in kerosene or naptha? lighter fluid? to remove (what I am guessing) is the black matted fur (oil/dirt/dust/etc) stains from hats. ie: where you pinch the crown, or grab the brim, or however you manage your hats over the years.

If you "restore" not "renovate" a hat - properly - with experience - and proper equipment (good steam not Jiffy) than no chemicals are ever needed - and it is simply a shortcut & a gimmick. Besides, I cant imagine an organic material like fur to ever respond well in the long run to a caustic solvent.

So yes, that is my wonder - and my question is just to ascertain validity.

And really, even with the most-offending bits removed, wherein you called RBH "uncouth," the above post remains plenty irritating. Take a more personally detached look at it, man, as though it were someone else's words. It says that to do things "properly," a person with "experience" has no need for chemicals, and that doing so is "simply a shortcut and a gimmick."

 

[Andykev]

Soaking a hat in Naptha is akin to taking your business suit to the dry cleaners. The Naptha (or white gas) is an excellent solvent to remove the dirt and oils from the felt. The hat generally is stripped of the liner, ribbon, and sweatband as those obviously do not enjoy a soak in such solvent, particularly the leather. The hat is gently scrubbed and then removed and placed on a "hat spinner" which as the name implies, spins the solvent out of the hat. This is the same process everyone knows from your standard clothes washer on spin cycle. The liquid is pulled out by centrifical force. Hat then "air dries" on a wire rack.

After cleaning, the hat needs blocking (with heat/steam) on a block and brushed as it spins...sometimes oils are used. Then the hat is flanged under the sandbag (heat) to set the brim. The "guts" are added as well, the liner, sweat, and ribbon trim. It takes a skilled craftsman to properly do this.

Using Naptha is not a bad thing. It is a solvent, and as such needs to be properly used/handled.

 

[Pa Fig]

Soaking a hat in Naptha is akin to taking your business suit to the dry cleaners. The Naptha (or white gas) is an excellent solvent to remove the dirt and oils from the felt. The hat generally is stripped of the liner, ribbon, and sweatband as those obviously do not enjoy a soak in such solvent, particularly the leather. The hat is gently scrubbed and then removed and placed on a "hat spinner" which as the name implies, spins the solvent out of the hat. This is the same process everyone knows from your standard clothes washer on spin cycle. The liquid is pulled out by centrifical force. Hat then "air dries" on a wire rack.

After cleaning, the hat needs blocking (with heat/steam) on a block and brushed as it spins...sometimes oils are used. Then the hat is flanged under the sandbag (heat) to set the brim. The "guts" are added as well, the liner, sweat, and ribbon trim. It takes a skilled craftsman to properly do this.

Using Naptha is not a bad thing. It is a solvent, and as such needs to be properly used/handled.

That is amazing - that is what I was asking - thank you - seems like overkill though.

I didn't mean to offend. I was taken aback by a one word response to a very forum appropriate question - by a moderator.

It seems I have stepped on toes since the get go when a dude appreciated my restoration work for preserving what he called a well - earned patina. We exchanged some words and he undoubtedly sees Rand, and I told him for me Whitman. Those posts were all deleted in lieu of breaching forum policy on advertising - so there is nothing in format to give this legitimacy. But it did happen.

Anyhow. I'm gonna head out and hope this momma don't give me up. If your ever out west, stop by and we could maybe talk more - hats or whatever.

so long

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

I am sure Art knows of Pa Fig as he hails from Bent Oregon. Most people on the forum require a little more work done to their hats. An most hats here are way above a Stagecoach Resistol.You can do some work with steam but most hats need a little love to get back to mint condition.

 

[hatsRme]

Faux Pa Fig. Sorry, too easy. :lalala:

 

[Art Fawcett]

wow, I missed all this. Ed, I'd never heard of Pa Fig until Andykev sent a link to his site last month. He is entitled to his own beliefs and from getting the gist of what's left of his posts, I guess he doesn't believe in chemicals to renovate hats, contrary to hundreds of years of tradition. My question would be, are the chemicals used to make the hat originally just as bad as the ones used in cleaning? Please look up the "carroting" process Mr. Fig. It was the source of the term "mad hatter" because of the mercury used until he 1920s ( I believe it was the 20s). Even after mercury was banned, the process still had to take place with something so, my point would be the hat is born with chemicals involved, so why the "issue" with chemicals afterward?
If you truly have left the Lounge, feel free to use my 800 # to call and discuss it directly.

 

[mayserwegener]

Regarding Carroting / Pickling. Mecuric Nitrate (banned ) and Nitric Acid in the day. The standard Carroting reagents today are concentrated sulfuric and nitric acids, caloric acid, used either singly or in combination, to which may be added hydrogen peroxide and potassium permanganate as oxidizing agents.

Side note: The above chemicals do damage the fur fibers reducing the strength of the felt.

 

[kingrat]

edit out smart reply..did we not discuss this mr kingrat?

 

[alanfgag]

... Even after mercury was banned, the process still had to take place with something so, my point would be the hat is born with chemicals involved, so why the "issue" with chemicals afterward?

I also missed the debate, but can fully understand why someone would want to limit exposure to these chemicals in their workplace.

 

[Pa Fig]

I am not a hatter.

I choose to restore hats with a method that I have been practicing for years.

I have done every quality and every brand of fur felt under the sun. In my experience, I have found that using a more tapered method to restoring hats with simply steam and brush tension - will allow the hat to return to the function it was built for - while preserving the finish and promoting the integrity of the fiber.

I am not dismissing other practices - I was requesting more information on this individual's process.

 

[tonyb]

I am not a hatter.

I choose to restore hats with a method that I have been practicing for years.

I have done every quality and every brand of fur felt under the sun. In my experience, I have found that using a more tapered method to restoring hats with simply steam and brush tension - will allow the hat to return to the function it was built for - while preserving the finish and promoting the integrity of the fiber.

I am not dismissing other practices - I was requesting more information on this individual's process.

You "restore" hats, but you aren't a hatter.

You aren't "dismissing other practices," but you say those "practices" are "shortcuts and gimmicks."

 

[Pa Fig]

You "restore" hats, but you aren't a hatter.

You aren't "dismissing other practices," but you say those "practices" are "shortcuts and gimmicks."

I am not a hatter. I restore hats.

That is my opinion, not a dismissal.

 

[tonyb]

I am not a hatter. I restore hats.

That is my opinion, not a dismissal.

As I said earlier, in response to a post you deleted, that you give us reasons not to take you seriously. The post quoted above is all the more reason. You won't even own your own words. But, you know, that's just my opinion.

 

[RJR]

:eusa_clap

 

[LuvMyMan]

As I said earlier, in response to a post you deleted, that you give us reasons not to take you seriously. The post quoted above is all the more reason. You won't even own your own words. But, you know, that's just my opinion.

+ 1 and a few million to boot!:arated::eusa_booh

 

[Pa Fig]

As I said earlier, in response to a post you deleted, that you give us reasons not to take you seriously. The post quoted above is all the more reason. You won't even own your own words. But, you know, that's just my opinion.

I deleted the posts - not because I do not stand 100% behind them - I deleted them - because my question got me nowhere - except for you and your wild assumptions based on poor interpretation. If anyone would like a run down of my hat experience - I would be glad to share.

But I wont keep information up on a public forum where someone is quoting things from my website and interpreting them falsely - potentially damaging the reputation of my business - and thus the livelihood of my family.

I own my words - people do not come over to my shop and I do not make hats for them. People from all over the world - mail them to me - and I meet great local color at all of my clean & shape events. If you want to understand another side of hats and what it takes - go visit the Quarter Horse Congress - it starts soon - visit Rods on the firs Saturday - and look in their closet behind them - and see hundreds of call tags and hat boxes - and watch them out front - slinging great shapes like they are pros = because they are - and then watch them sell in the mean time and work those hats. There are many sides to everything.

I understand felt - and I came to this community to share love of the material - and the finished product.

Lets keep it on topic, gentlemen.

 

[DJH]

Hmm, I thought the topic was Mr Fawcett's hat renovation business. Maybe I missed something.

 

[LuvMyMan]

I am not a hatter. I restore hats.

That is my opinion, not a dismissal.

I do not restore hats nor have the skill set to do much more than to steam and use a hat brush on hats. But I do know, that if I have an issue or a real question, those around these parts have done it all, seen it all and if not, they know which way to ride a horse, fly a jet, google the goose, to find the information out about hats.

Being as it is....I think you took a very large plate, spent some time cooking and preparing and now have some "crow" to partake.

I am sure there is nothing wrong with using steam on a hat....I have done as much. And I do not think most hat lovers are blind about using steam to shape or help some what to clean a hat. But, being here on the Lounge is like family. You can be so very welcome, but not if you have a purpose of tossing verbal rocks at anyone. I'd think you would owe someone a deep "I am sorry" as you really stepped on it the wrong way. Then if you can just not be so "one way" about things, you may just learn about hats in ways maybe you do not know? But please, do not toss any more verbal rocks around here at anyone...it will only make the "posse" have to mount up!

Also, as it is, no one here is GOD when it comes to hats. I think each expert even learns something new all the time. But we do have some very "expert" hat people here. If there is something you have learned about hats that could be a help, then share it.

Now as the late Paul Harvey would say, for the rest of the story....

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Mr Pa Fig I must admit I have a little difficulty in understanding some of your posts, a different dialect prehaps & your signature didn't make any sense at all so I looked it up & in fact the correct quote from Mr. Holmes reads " Shabby gentility has nothing so characteristic as its hat." which does indeed make more sense.
As for this 'debate' which has turned more into a squabble, may I offer you a simple piece of advice Mr. Fig, 'when you're in a hole, stop digging'......it would be better to retire politely from this thread, let bygones be bygones & join in the friendly banter on other threads....