Hat proportions in 1938

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

The Sears & Roebuck spring and summer 1938 catalogue describes a snappy young man's hat as "correctly styled" with a 2¼-inch brim and 5⅝-inch crown. (Here, second from bottom right.)

One hat with a 5¾ crown can be had with a "medium" 2¼ or a "wide" 2½ brim.

Another one has a "low" 5½-inch crown, at a brim of 2⅛. (Here, upper right.)

In comparison the current 30s-style hats:

Akubra Federation: brim 2⅞ x 2¾, open crown 5½
Akubra Federation IV: no idea. Same?
Stetson Nostalgia: brim 2½, open crown 4½ (but a decent band!)
Camptown 1936 Fieldmaster: brim 3, crown 5¾

 

[Baron Kurtz]

This is the problem with "30s style" hats. Hat shapes and dimensions were all over the place. I bet that if you looked through enough catalogues you'll find all dimensions on offer in 1938. Just see the variability on show in period "street scene" photographs.

I really don't think you can narrow down what a "1938 hat" would have looked like. I would argue, based upon experience of hats from this era, that there is no defining characteristic of a hat from the 1930s, or from the 1940s for that matter.

bk

 

[cookie]

Some great ideas here from Sydney Hatters 1938 (repeated link)

http://libapp.sl.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/spydus/NAV/PM/FULL1/3299/5,03001,1

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

I really don't think you can narrow down what a "1938 hat" would have looked like. I would argue, based upon experience of hats from this era, that there is no defining characteristic of a hat from the 1930s, or from the 1940s for that matter.

I entirely agree, all the more as people in 1938 didn't all wear hats designed, made and sold in 1938, a common misunderstanding with film costumers.

 

[Art Fawcett]

You're right BK, a gent could get whatever he wanted as far as dimensions but I disagree that there is no way to distinguish. It is mostly about the shape of the crown and straight sides. Couple that with creases popular at the time and you really CAN get the "30s" look. That said, I've been surprised at the early hats before. I once owned a hat that I swore was '60s but after investigation is turned out to be 1928 ( a dated mink Borsalino)

 

[Brad Bowers]

In comparison the current 30s-style hats:

Akubra Federation: brim 2⅞ x 2¾, open crown 5½
Akubra Federation IV: no idea. Same?
Stetson Nostalgia: brim 2½, open crown 4½ (but a decent band!)
Camptown 1936 Fieldmaster: brim 3, crown 5¾

Remember, most of these are based on a hat from a film, which was essentially a cariacature hat, and not a good representation of an actual 1930s hat.

Thanks for posting these pages, though. I love this kind of research.

It's interesting that their hat size chart goes up to 7 3/4, but the hats they sell were only available up through 7 1/2! Looks like large-headed guys have always been left out.

Interesting that there is only 3/8" difference between the width of their narrow brim and their wide brim. On the Lounge these days, that difference can be one inch or more.

Brad

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Thinking again, while there were definitely all kinds of hats around, the ones in this catalogue might by kind of typical (the modern repros are more stereotypical), considering that this was a mass-market catalogue aimed at the average Joe. The company could only offer a limited number of styles, and that's what they picked.

The style would be a year or two after high-priced hats and what you saw in movies, wouldn't it?

 

[Marcus Brody]

Akubra Federation: brim 2⅞ x 2¾, open crown 5½
Akubra Federation IV: no idea. Same?

Actually the original Federation was 6", it's the newer one that is 5.5", which is now commonly considered the open crown height of the Indy hat (it was previously 6"). The more uncommon things about the Indy hat for the times are the raw edge and dimensional cut brim. The brim width, open crown height, ribbon, and non tapered crown are all consistent.

Remember, most of these are based on a hat from a film, which was essentially a cariacature hat, and not a good representation of an actual 1930s hat.

I don't think the Indiana Jones is a caricature hat. I have several vintage hats that are of the same or even greater dimensions than the Indy hat. For example, my Disney 20 has nearly exact dimensions with a 2 7/8" brim and open crowned it's 5.5", my Whippet has a 2 3/4" brim and open crown is 6", and my Dobbs 15 has a 2 7/8" brim with a 6" crown. Also, most repro Indy hats have tended to exaggerate features of the original hat. According to Indy Gear, the original hat's dimensions were 2 ¾" in the front and 2 5/8 on the sides. Most repro Indy hat however are usually 2 7/8" on the front, but even that isn't such a crazy width considering the examples I gave above.

True it's hard to narrow down what is exactly a 30's hat or what's a 50's hat is, but I believe it is still generally the case that wider and taller hats were more common pre-60's.

It's interesting that their hat size chart goes up to 7 3/4, but the hats they sell were only available up through 7 1/2! Looks like large-headed guys have always been left out.

Not to mention that people tended to be shorter back then too.

 

[Big Man]

... Not to mention that people tended to be shorter back then too.

You couldn't prove that by members of my family.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Marcus, I can agree with almost everything you said, however, in the number of hats I've handled and owned that were authentic 30's 40s', none of them ever had a dimensional brim. This is what differs from reality imho, and makes it a "movie" hat. Taller crowns, yes, wider look ( less taper) yes, wide brims? ..here is another that I can't totally agree with. Although it was possible to get wider brims, it wasn't the norm. Many peaked out at 2 3/4 and perhaps one out of a hundred were wider, but most were in the 2 3/8-2 1/2 range in the '30s.

 

[Marcus Brody]

Marcus, I can agree with almost everything you said, however, in the number of hats I've handled and owned that were authentic 30's 40s', none of them ever had a dimensional brim. This is what differs from reality imho, and makes it a "movie" hat. Taller crowns, yes, wider look ( less taper) yes, wide brims? ..here is another that I can't totally agree with. Although it was possible to get wider brims, it wasn't the norm. Many peaked out at 2 3/4 and perhaps one out of a hundred were wider, but most were in the 2 3/8-2 1/2 range in the '30s.

Actually, that's what I wrote, that dimensional brims weren't common, although I'm pretty sure some had to have existed somewhere. Amongst the ramblings on COW once, I've heard some people make a connection with Australian hats and dimensional cut brims. Out of all my hats I have, only my Federations and this one (probably post 60's) Dobbs I have have dimensional cuts. I've also found that in general, wide meant 2 3/4, which is coincidentally the official brim width for the original Indy hat, but the Federation and other hats are wider despite that. They were wrong about the crown height before too, so they might be wrong about the brim possibly. But like I said I do have hats that are 2 7/8" and it's not as if a Dobbs 15 or Whippet are rarer hats. So as it stands, the dimensional cut is by far the most inaccurate thing of the Raiders hat, and probably also the bash. I also think the 1.5" ribbon may be a tad short for that period of hat, and especially for one of its height. Although I'm pretty sure this was intentional to make the crown look taller, and there obviously are tall hats with 1.5" ribbons.

 

[Stoney]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hab3045/2396516901/sizes/o/in/set-72157604410984660/

$3.95 was probably quite a bit to pay for those lightweight hats back in 1938, but I'll bet they were nice. Does anyone have one of those to show?

 

[MAB1]

I have seen some stingy brims in really old films. I guess it's always been a matter of preference and not determined by the fashionistas.

 

[warbird]

I have seen some stingy brims in really old films. I guess it's always been a matter of preference and not determined by the fashionistas.

Men were on average slimmer back then. Most men who are slim or have slim faces do best with a stingy to a medium size brim. Rarely do they look good in a wide brim. In my opinion a wide brim, say over 2 1/2 or so on a slender faced guy looks dorky. There are always exceptions, but fuller faced guys look better with a wider brim. I think this may account for many brims being the 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 mode.

Then you had your Open Roaders, who primarily were gentlemen cowboys with a wider brim, but not as wide as traditional cowboys.

 

[Ryan]

Curious, the ad says "perforations in top of the crown". I'd like to see what this looks like. Can anyone share a pic or describe this to me?