Good Night and Good Luck

[shamus]

thank you for your insights Lincsong.

I decided to look into Senator Joe McCarthy and found this interesting "cliff" notes on the man and the senator.

http://mccarthy.cjb.net/

 

[Lincsong]

Good Night, good luck in depth

How is this film Anti-American propaganda? Please explain..
If being an American is about bullying witch-hunts and anyone supports this Un-American behavior, then we are headed towards heck faster than Paris Hilton will supposedly escort us.

This film attempts to portray Sen. McCarthy as being a "bully" and on "witch" hunts. Both of which are untrue. The fact of the matter is that Sen. McCarthy was concerned about Communists and Communist sympathizers in government. Alger Hiss was indeed a Communists agent and he infiltrated right up to Roosevelts wheel chair.

Did McCarthy ever provide any evidence for all the accusations he spewed? Or is it enough that out of everyone he tried to destroy, some were probably Communists? McCarthy certainly seemed like an overzealous person.

McCarthy was a rather charismatic individual with a gravel truck voice and a bald head. That is Hollywood central casting for "Dr. Evil". The Venona Cables indicate that McCarthy was closer to the truth than people are taught. Ethel and Julius Rosenburg were guilty. Would an overzealous person be named the "most admired man in America in 1954" by a Gallup Poll?

I know Clooney is not as well liked because he tends to speak his mind and question things in a time that might not be very sensative or appropriate. When is the right time to speak up? A person walks a fine line when their conscience tells them something is wrong and everyone around them is saying to keep quite.

Clooney can speak his mind all he wants. But, what he is attempting to do with this film is garbage. He's merely parroting the Left's lies about McCarthy and trying to put it in a modern setting. A pig can have satin panties and lace collars but it is still a swine.

What ever happened to not agreeing with someone but defending their right to say it? The old hero McCarthy seemed not so gracious.

It's a free country and Clooney can say what ever he wants and people can pay money to see it, but I also have the right to criticize it and label it for what it is. McCarthy may not have seemed gracious, perhaps he should have tried a voice coach. (sic)

 

[Lincsong]

Thanks for the link

thank you for your insights Lincsong.

I decided to look into Senator Joe McCarthy and found this interesting "cliff" notes on the man and the senator.

http://mccarthy.cjb.net/

That poor child.

 

[Andykev]

Great

OUTSTANDING reviews folks. This is what the Movies section is about. Keep it in content, as you are! Excellent. Think Roger Ebert!

 

[nightandthecity]

What an extraordinary discussion. I thought academic historians had settled most of these questions ages ago.

McCarthy was not so much a brave crusader OR a paranoid bully as an unprincipled opportunist. His entire career was marked by a series of disgraceful campaigns in which he habitually lied about and slandered his opponents, whether Republican or Democrat. The anti-communist purges of the 50s were simply a useful bandwagon on which he jumped.

As for what Linc so tactfully calls the “rats� in the “sewer� of Hollywood, McCarthy wasn’t connected with the Hollywood purges, which started before he jumped the bandwagon, and was the work of HUAC. Jolly Joe operated through the Government Operations Committee and his target was “reds� in the US government. His famous 1950 “secret list� of Communist agents in the government was actually a public list published by the government back in 1946. It didn’t consist of Communists but of people screened for various “sins� ranging from Communism and Fascism to sexual deviancy and alcoholism. Ironically, Macarthy himself wouldn’t have passed the screening as he was both a homosexual and an alcoholic.

Hiss? – recent work in the Soviet archives has failed to incriminate him or find even a prima facie case against him. Attempts by right-wing hacks claiming otherwise have been definitively trashed by academics working in the field. On balance Hiss was probably innocent, which would explain why he refused to let the affair sink quietly into obscurity. The Venona cables don’t mention Hiss, they only confirm the Russians had a high level spy passing “military information�, who could have been anyone - but not likely to have been Hiss who didn’t have access to military info and was never accused of this.

But back to the “sewer�...at the level of the actors, writers and directors Golden Age Hollywood was certainly dominated by the political left. But only a few were Communists, as they were perfectly entitled to be. No doubt many Hollywood liberals were rather naïve about the nature of the Russian regime, but then most of the western right had been soft on Hitler and Mussolini (and were still soft on Franco).

Were they making Communist propaganda as was alleged at the time? This shouldn’t even have been an issue. They were entitled to make whatever films they wanted. They weren’t working for a monolithic state, they were making commercial films within a free market. Films which, moreover, had to be passed by the right-wing studio bosses. But as it happens, only a handful of films come close to any sane definition of “communist propaganda� (e.g. Mission to Moscow) and these were made during WW2 with the backing of the US government and the studio bosses, as part of the war effort.

What is true is that Golden Age Hollwood films are often informed by a liberal humanistic world view, and none the worse for that. It gave us some of the greatest films of all time, in particular that hardboiled realist strain that runs from the early thirties gangster movies through to Film Noir. That body of work was largely the creation of left-wing actors, writers and directors. Needless to say, the political right hated these films, which was their privilege, and needless to say they were forever trying to censor and ban them, which wasn’t.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing this particular film. Here in the sticks we get everything months after everyone else. Narnia has only just opened at out local fleapit (shock horror, right-wing Christian propaganda, lets start a purge trial......) and , by golly, its King Kong next month. So gorgeous Georgeous might be with us by next year some time…..

 

[jake_fink]

nightandthecity made a number of interesting and articulate points.

Hear hear!

:cheers1:

 

[airfrogusmc]

There were allot of fine Anericans hurt buy this witch-hunt. And many more scared to work because of the fear of being put on the list. The thing I can't understand about the far right is their willingness to give big business all the freedom to do what ever they want in pursuit of the almighty dollar but are so reluctant to give individuals freedom of speech and expression. Maybe the later can hurt the formers bottom line at times...

 

[airfrogusmc]

Just remember a couple of those films that were considered left wing propaganda, "Its a Wonderful Life" and "The Grapes of Wrath".

 

[jake_fink]

... and "The Best Years of Our Lives" - singled out as propaganda - is a fine film... and one of Myrna Loy's proudest moments. Are we to throw out all of her work as that of a propagandist, knowing that she was a - gasp - liberal. Where are the politics in Thin Man Goes Home?

HUAC was a travesty. I may just come back and start a thread on the blacklist when this very exciting fight between Joachim Alcine and Anderson Clayton is over.

 

[Harry Lime]

Thank you for restoring my faith in (most of) you.

I don't know what horrified me more - the pro McCarthy thread or that no one came forth to contest it's dubious claims. Until now. There is a huge smile on my face - thanks to all, Nightandthecity you especially.

Many of the actors and writers that were tortured and ruined by HUAC and McCarthy were products of the Great Depression. Liberals in thought and trying to find a solution to what might work for them (as the Republican Hoover government had completely failed the masses) some attended communist or socialist meetings looking for answers. Not that different than the Union organization meetings going on at the same time. Many othrs looked to the far right, as Pro-Nazi Americans, etc. They were left pretty much alone. Odd that.

Does Hollywood make some films with a liberal bent? You bet and God bless them for it. They do it particularly when the far right grabs too much power in Washington (like they have now) as a way to inform and balance. Likewise when the left gets too much power, right leaning-artists seem to gain interest. This ying and yang is actually a marvelous thing.

Leftist films of the Golden Age? Is Jimmy Stewart's "Strategic Air Command," basically a propoganda film imploring the public to buy the new miracle bomber the B-47 (obsolete pretty much by the time it rolled off the line) one of them? What about "The Green Berets" where John Wayne shows a liberal writer we really did need to be in Viet Nam?

Thank God most of the Smiths and Jones and Noodleman's and Ike Turner's out there no the truth and the difference. And the vast majority realize still McCarthy was scum.

Thanks guys.

Harry Lime

 

[Lincsong]

Of course they're left wing

Just remember a couple of those films that were considered left wing propaganda, "Its a Wonderful Life" and "The Grapes of Wrath".

The Grapes of Wrath; Who was the bad guy in the beginning? Mr. Corporate Farmer. Who was the good guy? The government running the Okie camp. (no racial or ethnic slur intended)

 

[Lincsong]

McCarthy was not so much a brave crusader OR a paranoid bully as an unprincipled opportunist. His entire career was marked by a series of disgraceful campaigns in which he habitually lied about and slandered his opponents, whether Republican or Democrat. The anti-communist purges of the 50s were simply a useful bandwagon on which he jumped.

What competitive campaign isn't?

As for what Linc so tactfully calls the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìrats?¢‚Ǩ? in the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsewer?¢‚Ǩ? of Hollywood, McCarthy wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t connected with the Hollywood purges, which started before he jumped the bandwagon, and was the work of HUAC. Jolly Joe operated through the Government Operations Committee and his target was ?¢‚Ǩ?ìreds?¢‚Ǩ? in the US government.

I didn't say Hollywood was the sewer. I said he flushed rats out of the sewer. I also said he was interested in Reds in government.

His famous 1950 ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsecret list?¢‚Ǩ? of Communist agents in the government was actually a public list published by the government back in 1946. It didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t consist of Communists but of people screened for various ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsins?¢‚Ǩ? ranging from Communism and Fascism to sexual deviancy and alcoholism. Ironically, Macarthy himself wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t have passed the screening as he was both a homosexual and an alcoholic.

Guilt by association? Roy Cohn worked for him so he must be homosexual?

Hiss? ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú recent work in the Soviet archives has failed to incriminate him or find even a prima facie case against him. Attempts by right-wing hacks claiming otherwise have been definitively trashed by academics working in the field. On balance Hiss was probably innocent, which would explain why he refused to let the affair sink quietly into obscurity. The Venona cables don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t mention Hiss, they only confirm the Russians had a high level spy passing ?¢‚Ǩ?ìmilitary information?¢‚Ǩ?, who could have been anyone - but not likely to have been Hiss who didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t have access to military info and was never accused of this.

Academics? The same "academics" who in the early 1980's said the Soviet Union couldn't be destroyed and Reagan was dreaming? Communism has always been pushed by academics and other enlightened hacks. Hiss sold the U.S. out at Yalta. He was the one who convinced the fool Roosevelt to cave into Stalin.

But back to the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsewer?¢‚Ǩ?...at the level of the actors, writers and directors Golden Age Hollywood was certainly dominated by the political left. But only a few were Communists, as they were perfectly entitled to be. No doubt many Hollywood liberals were rather na?ɬØve about the nature of the Russian regime, but then most of the western right had been soft on Hitler and Mussolini (and were still soft on Franco).

Right was weak on Hitler and Mussolini? My British Lounger, Roosevelt was an ardent left winger. In the U.S. Senate, out of 96 Senators fewer than 35 were Republican. Out of 435 Congressmen lest than 160 were Republican. The American Right controlled nothing from 1933-1946. So how could they have been soft on Hitler?

 

[Lincsong]

Then why are liberals..

There were allot of fine Anericans hurt buy this witch-hunt. And many more scared to work because of the fear of being put on the list. The thing I can't understand about the far right is their willingness to give big business all the freedom to do what ever they want in pursuit of the almighty dollar but are so reluctant to give individuals freedom of speech and expression. Maybe the later can hurt the formers bottom line at times...

All for the banning of Song of the South and Amos N Andy? If they're for freedom of speech and expression I would much rather watch some animated birds sing Zippidy Doo Dah than Brokeback Mountain.

 

[jake_fink]

Is anyone going to nail the door shut on this saloon?

 

[Feraud]

come on guys, let us not get another thread locked down! This is starting to look bad on us. Can we have a conversation that not degenerate into that silly Conservative/Liberal arguement? It is getting rather old...

Lighten up. Discuss the film.
How about this.. In 10 or 20 years will anyone be talking about Clooney's film in a context such as The Grapes of Wrath, 12 Angry Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, or The Ox-Bow Incident?

 

[Big Man]

It has always amazed me how "the masses" can be so easily influenced (or so it is thought) by a movie. Come on folks, it's just a movie. I hope that I never become so easily swayed that I will base my "understanding" of history or politics or religion or culture on a movie. And, should there be some sinister plot by the right or the left to spread their own propaganda via a movie, wouldn't it only appeal to folks who thought like that (right or left) in the the first place?

 

[geo]

The McCarthy trials are still controversial today, but it wasn't all paranoia. There was some truth at the bottom of it all.

The story started during WW2, when US intelligence started recording encrypted Soviet diplomatic messages. They couldn't be read, because they were encoded, but they were kept on file. Later, analysts were able to break the code, and US intelligence started decoding and translating the messages. After going through many names,this operation was called the "Venona"project. Analysts were very surprised to find out that the messages were not the usual messages between Soviet embassies and Moscow, but rather messages between Soviet agents on US soil and Soviet intelligence (remember, US and USSR were allies during WW2, and the Cold War started only after) . The messages revealed a great number of US communist sympathisers, secret members of the US communist party, and sources used by Soviet intelligence. A great number of those mentioned in the messages were Hollywood artists, moviemakers, producers, etc. Also, this is were the information on the Rosenbergs came from, and some people still believe them innocent today.

So this is why the McCarthy commission was started, and it looked like the crusade of a lone fanatic because the proof acquired through the "Venona" operation couldn't be used in court, since the operation was highly secret. The operation ended only in 1980, and was declassified only in the 1990's, when a book was britten about it.

http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00039.cfm

 

[Harry Lime]

I would still consider it paranoia.

Paranoia is the creation of irrational fears that the average person feels threatens his or her way of life. Hitler did it, Stalin did it, many corrupt governments did it (and do it). The artist is the easiest to attack because by nature they think and express and question. McCarthy certainly practiced the manufacture of paranoia, exploited it, and served as model of intolerance that is worthy of study today.

Creating paranoia amongst the populace is about the most cynical and manipulative thing you can do as a government official. So is focusing on irrational fears while ignoring real problems. Creating doubt about members of your own country, particularly those that are easily labeled by color or race or religion or trade, is reprehensible. This is also part of what critics of today's administration mean when they accuse it of creating a "Culture of Fear." Whether they do this or not is your call.

Harry Lime

 

[nightandthecity]

I think there is a danger here of confusing two different things. The hunt for Russian spies in America and the heresy hunt against the left.

There were Russian spies in 1940s America. No surprises there. All countries spy on each other, even the closest allies. Inevitably some CP members were going to be working for Russia - and inevitably the best Russian agents were likely to be found in less obvious quarters. The real spy hunt was conducted in secrecy not by public commissions.

McCarthy was doing something else, he was trying to bolster a flagging and controversial career by joining in a heresy hunt against the US left started by HUAC. He never identified a single Communist in government, let alone a Russian agent, and like HUAC seems to have been unable to distinguish between the many different groups on the left, some of which were even more anti-communist than he was. He ended up virtually accusing the Democratic party of treason, came close to calling Dean Acheson, General Marshall and Harry Truman Soviet agents, and tried to initiate the suppression of left-wing books and newspapers.

The Venona cables are fascinating, but not the world-shattering revelations some people claim. The main reason they were not used in spy trials of the time is that they wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t stand up in court, as FBI internal memos make clear. Much of the information obtained was scrappy and out of context. There were serious problems with both the cryptography and the English translations. Most of the people mentioned were not agents but simply names that cropped up in the discourse. Those that were agents were always referred to by cover names which were changed regularly, and to this day most have never been positively identified. Some that have been identified were only ?¢‚Ǩ?ìagents?¢‚Ǩ? in the optimistic minds of KGB operatives wishing to impress their masters. There was also some dodgy circular referencing going on, with Venona operatives filling in the blanks with names from FBI files.

Incidentally, it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a long time since I looked at the Venona material but I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t recall a single ?¢‚Ǩ?ìHollywood artist, moviemaker, producer?¢‚Ǩ? that has been positively or even tentatively identified as one of the Russian agents in Venona. What good would such people be as agents anyway? I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m sure its unintentional, but when you say ?¢‚Ǩ?ìThe messages revealed a great number of US communist sympathisers, secret members of the US communist party, and sources used by Soviet intelligence?¢‚Ǩ? you are replicating the kind of thinking that inspired McCarthy. People were entitled to be ?¢‚Ǩ?ìCommunist sympathisers?¢‚Ǩ? - and please note that this is not necessarily how those people saw themselves. People were also entitled to be members of the CP - and it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s hardly surprising that many were reluctant to be too open about membership. As for ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsources?¢‚Ǩ? that is not the same thing as being a conscious agent. It was typical of McCarthy and HUAC - and unfortunately of Hoover - that they seem to have found it difficult to make these kind of elementary distinctions.

Anyway, it seems this film has finally hit the UK. At least, I just read my first review. Apparently the reason they shot it in black and white was to intersperse original and modern film so that McCarthy could play himself! How seamless was the editing? Did anyone here not realize they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d done this? I can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t wait to see it.

 

[Lincsong]

Miss Annie Lee Moss

In Good Night and Good Luck there are scenes of Senator McCarthy accusing Annie Lee Moss, who worked in highly sensitive decoding job in the Pentagon, of being a Communist, and the heroic Edward R. Murrow then denouncing McCarthy's behavior. But we now know, from the party's own files, that Miss Moss was, indeed, a Communist. What should we conclude from the absence of this detail in the picture? That Clooney, who goes around boasting that every moment in the screenplay has been "double-sourced" for accuracy, simply doesn't know she's a Commie? Or that he does know but thinks it's harmless?
National Review Feb. 27, 2006 page 37:cheers1: