Good Night and Good Luck - Closed

[bfrench]

Hi, Folks,

It isn't often I post here - mostly a lurker on the Jacket section.

I'm curious as to why you shut down the thread on Good Night and Good Luck rather than move it here to the Observation Lounge where you list politics as one of the options.

It was an interesting and quite civil thread which I would have liked to follow to its inevitable conclusion.

Bill French

 

[airfrogusmc]

Bill the only conclusion is Sen McCarthy was using fear to further his own political agenda. How do we know this? Well after being discredited the commies he had us in such fear of didn't take over America. What he was selling us just didn't happen.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Didn't it start in the observation bar, and get moved to movies? I remember a thread about this movie in the observation bar. Maybe it was a different one.

I guess the reason it wasn't moved is that this argument comes around about once a fortnight in the observation bar. The Lefties will never convince The Righties, and vice versa. (Were there a smilie with its fingers in its ears shouting "lalalalalalala" it would appear here to pictorially describe the nature of these arguments)

bk

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Maybe use this one instead?

:deadhorse

That's the way all those political and/or moral discussions go,.....they just don't go anywhere. I could no more convince someone else that all of my views are correct, than they could convince me that their's are. :fing28:

 

[airfrogusmc]

I personally don't think its a left or right issue because as history has shown it wasn't good for either. And in my opinion our country needs both to keep the center. Yeah it'll go one way for a while and then back the other but the bottom is red, blue, right, left we are all Americans(in this country).

 

[jamespowers]

Well after being discredited the commies he had us in such fear of didn't take over America. What he was selling us just didn't happen.

Really? Was he discredited or did he just slow them down?
ACLU Founder Roger Baldwin
"I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the State
itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek the social ownership
of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control of those who
produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

Roger Baldwin, founder of the American Civil Liberties Union. Quoted in the National Federation for Decency Journal, September 1988.

Then from 1958 in The Naked Communist---the Goals for Communism in the United States. This is not only recorded int eh Congressional Record January 10, 1963 but it is recorded in the Communist Manifesto itself. How many of these goals have actually been achieved? Answer most of them. So who is discredited now?

1. U.S. acceptance of co-existence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist afflation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the UN.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Krushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the UN.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the UN.

11. Promote the UN as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the UN as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing In the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain Control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protest programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments. editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion Picture

22. Continual discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.

23. Control art critics and director of art museums. Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, and meaningless art.

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26. Present homosexually, degeneracy and promiscuity as normal, natural, healthy.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with social religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a religious crutch.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of separation of church and state.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it Inadequate. old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a world-wide basis.

30. Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the common man.

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the big picture. Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture-education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to Social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use united force to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

I will keep this thread going here as long as there are no personal attacks involving calling other members idiots and retarded. [bad] I think there is indeed something to be gleaned here as long as some are open to debate what happened honestly before, after and during said period.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Lincsong]

MCarthy Discredited?

History has vindicated McCarthy. There were Communists in government. Annie Moss proved just that. She cried those crocodile tears. She was a vamp and a snake. We must continue to be vigilant against the
Communists. Just because the Soviets have been destroyed doesn't mean that there still isn't a Red Menace. Just go to San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and New England that there are loads of "Democratic" politicians who advocate a toned down communism. The Speaker of the Assembly in California says that we cannot let the free market reign in California. Democratic politicians go to Silicon Valley and tell them that in order for them to survive they need to create "partnerships" with the State of California. Bill Clinton advocated the same garbage in his first two years. The fool even went up to the California Redwoods and told the loggers up there that he and the environmentalists were going to halt all logging, but don't worry he'd just increase the welfare benefits for the area.

 

[airfrogusmc]

James I'm off to work so don't have allot of time to answer this. But communism is on the RUN. China is closer to capitalism and democracy than at any time. The Soviet Union is no more. Not because of fear but because of brave men and women. And the big fact the democracy and capitalism work much better than communism.

 

[shamus]

I guess the reason it wasn't moved is that this argument comes around about once a fortnight in the observation bar. The Lefties will never convince The Righties, and vice versa. (Were there a smilie with its fingers in its ears shouting "lalalalalalala" it would appear here to pictorially describe the nature of these arguments)

bk

Baron,

You're right for the most part, but some members here take it to the next level. They like to not only shout "Lalalala" but they also like to insult and slander anyone who is or was at some point in history "on the other side of the fence."

It's people like this who don't know how to conduct themselves in a "debate" that I have the most trouble with. They're the ones that when they run out of things to say or just don't have an answer say, 'Oh yeah?... well @#*% you and your mother!"

No we can never all see the same thing in politics and religion, but we should at least be civil and listen to what the other is saying, and not make personal attacts towards the other, their friends or peers.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Same Damn Rant by the Usual Right Wing Posters.

A self described Lefty; Straight Razor, was banned for bad behaviour but a Righty; Dusty Rhodes, had a vile post taken down but still is able to communicate with us. Here is a sample of his thinking. It's available only because it was widely quoted by others users on the thread.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes

Yep, roll up the Lib-TARD shades and take a look. Religion IS UNDER attack in every corner of the country starting with militant Lawyers (always with Jewish last names, how facinating that is!) at the ACLU and jerks like Mike Newdow. AS for your question......oh never mind ya A$$-
DR " :deadhorse

 

[Harry Lime]

A self described Lefty; Straight Razor, wasbanned for bad behaviour but a Righty; Dusty Rhodes, had a vile post taken down but still is able to communicate with us. Here is a sample of his thinking. It's available only because it was widely quoted by others users on the thread.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes

Yep, roll up the Lib-TARD shades and take a look. Religion IS UNDER attack in every corner of the country starting with militant Lawyers (always with Jewish last names, how facinating that is!) at the ACLU and jerks like Mike Newdow. AS for your question......oh never mind ya A$$-
DR " :deadhorse

A precisely correct observation. The FL unwritten and unspoken rule; let 'em know you're fighting on the side of the Republicans and Jesus and the rope is pretty long. All others watch your step.

A right-winger can hurl epithets and slander at will at "jews and lib-tards." But dare venture to call an extremist who pronounces McCarthy a "hero" "an idiot" and judgement day is-a-comin'.

Little did I know that liking hats and vintage movies and clothing also meant that I must also accept blindly:

1) The Conservative Platform.
2) The Evangelical Interpretation of Jesus
3) The Superior Patriotism and Gentlemanliness of those who subscribe to the first two (despite whatever their words or actions may indicate)

Harry Lime

 

[Katt in Hat]

Loved you in that last scene, Harry

Perhaps the Mods and the Boss will be a tad more even handed in future. I would like to see, perhaps via PM, exactly what was the straw that broke Straight Razor's back. Go Hogs!!! :arated:

 

[Miss Neecerie]

and gee...bringing it all up again in what is seemingly no more polite a discourse isn't going to also get this thread closed...nope...no sirreee...

Now I know why the ladies all went in to the kitchen to wash the dishes....manual labor is far less tedious then the same old arguments over and over.

 

[Katt in Hat]

Surely you are not suggesting that untrammeled attacks be left unmet?

We'll not concede the field to those with long knives and a poisonous agenda.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

NB:A member of Congress may place anything she desires in The Congressional Record. It may or may not be true or complete...

 

[Miss Neecerie]

We'll not concede the field to those with long knives and a poisonous agenda.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
:rage:

Concede.....

Thats precisely my point. This is a situation where further disucssion is highly unlikely to produce a 'winner'.

One can only concede when there is something to be won.

There are people of all political bents here, and do you -seriously- think arguing (especially considering the amount of ad hominem attacks and other unpleasantness that happens regularly on politics threads) is going to change anyone's mind to the point where you can feel you 'won'?

There can be no winners in these discussions when they turn nasty.

Denise.....who goes back to the dishwashing and knitting....

 

[bfrench]

Concede.....

Thats precisely my point. This is a situation where further disucssion is highly unlikely to produce a 'winner'.

One can only concede when there is something to be won.

There are people of all political bents here, and do you -seriously- think arguing (especially considering the amount of ad hominem attacks and other unpleasantness that happens regularly on politics threads) is going to change anyone's mind to the point where you can feel you 'won'?

There can be no winners in these discussions when they turn nasty.

Denise.....who goes back to the dishwashing and knitting....

Hi, Denise,

It's fine to return to doing the dishes - I may well join you.

But I find that when I get all emotional about a political stance I also realize it's attacking my beliefs - Then it's time for a reevaluation of the facts - quietly and see if I want to change my mind.

I certainly hope I never drop to the level of not knowing about the other point of view and that only mine is the true belief.

Unless you know and understand the enemy, you'll never know your strengths or weaknesses.

Rant over - where do you want me - washing or drying?

Bill French

 

[Salv]

Concede.....

Thats precisely my point. This is a situation where further disucssion is highly unlikely to produce a 'winner'.

One can only concede when there is something to be won.

There are people of all political bents here, and do you -seriously- think arguing (especially considering the amount of ad hominem attacks and other unpleasantness that happens regularly on politics threads) is going to change anyone's mind to the point where you can feel you 'won'?

There can be no winners in these discussions when they turn nasty.

Denise.....who goes back to the dishwashing and knitting....

I think it's unlikely that the political discussion on the Good Night and Good Luck thread would change any strongly held views. What I think is important in any political discussion is to give a balanced view, and that was what was happening. Without that balance anyone reading the thread who was unaware of the background to the film would be given a potentially biased version of events. Obviously both sides have their bias, but it's very wrong for only one side to be able to voice that bias.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Say,....

Would ya teach me howta knit?

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Hi, Denise,

It's fine to return to doing the dishes - I may well join you.

But I find that when I get all emotional about a political stance I also realize it's attacking my beliefs - Then it's time for a reevaluation of the facts - quietly and see if I want to change my mind.

I certainly hope I never drop to the level of not knowing about the other point of view and that only mine is the true belief.

Unless you know and understand the enemy, you'll never know your strengths or weaknesses.

Rant over - where do you want me - washing or drying?

Bill French

Drying is fine......


And I never intended to say that people should not have rational opinions etc....

Merely that here, where there are other common interests to be discussed, is perhaps not always the place to 'argue to the death' so to speak.

Its sort of the adage that religion and politics are never polite dinner conversation. Here it seems to be that whenever something turns to politics, it goes into less and less polite respectful discussion.

Polite discussion is edifying. Slamming each other over the heads with the hammer of 'your truth' is less useful and more damaging to others and oneself.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Would ya teach me howta knit?

I am learning to knit myself...but I can teach you to crochet...will that work?