Goat or cowhide for winter?

[jojothenorthstar]

Hi all. I am looking for a new winter jacket that can stand up to Canadian winters. For the past decade i've used my fathers old b-15 bomber jacket and I am unsure as to what leather it was as is was already well-worn when he gave it to me. It weighed over 5 1/2 pounds, and not ONCE on the coldest, windiest days, did I even feel a chill from the wind. I am unsure qs to what the interior lining was made up of, but it was likely cotton and the sleeves where a softer, shinier material than the base.

Now I need a new one and my options are either goat leather or cow leather. I was wondering what would be the better option to stand up to the wind and overall durability (has to survive snow, ice, and the occasional fall)

I don't want shearling

Additionally, is there a certain thickness that I should target? I wanted to keep a new one under 5 pounds if possible

thanks for any advice.

 

[MrProper]

Shearling ;-)

 

[jojothenorthstar]

Shearling ;-)

should have mentioned in my text, but I do not want shearling

 

[MrProper]

should have mentioned in my text, but I do not want shearling

Pity. I like it very much.
Is it important that the jacket is warm? Then I probably wouldn't go for leather, but rather a down jacket if I didn't want shearling.
I think goat is lighter than cow. At least that's how it's usually been with my jackets.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

Pity. I like it very much.
Is it important that the jacket is warm? Then I probably wouldn't go for leather, but rather a down jacket if I didn't want shearling.
I think goat is lighter than cow. At least that's how it's usually been with my jackets.

like i mentioned, i had leather for the coldest days and i felt 0 cold or wind. I know leather is good for my needs, i am just wondering which leather would be better

 

[Will Zach]

That is a good question you're asking. I would go with thick goat. Goat is abrasion-resistant and consequently, more dense than cow. Hence, it *may* block cold wind better. From your description you must run pretty hot, bacause leather is not a great heat insulator, and you were good in leather in Canadian winters only with cotton lining. Anyway, I would do thick goat (3-oz), maybe with wool linining for extra warmth?

 

[jojothenorthstar]

That is a good question you're asking. I would go with thick goat. Goat is abrasion-resistant and consequently, more dense than cow. Hence, it *may* block cold wind better. From your description you must run pretty hot, bacause leather is not a great heat insulator, and you were good in leather in Canadian winters only with cotton lining. Anyway, I would do thick goat (3-oz), maybe with wool linining for extra warmth?

thanks for the reply! a lot of people tell me i have good cold resistance, but that really isn't true. I am chronically anemic and i get cold at room temperature. leather is just really good at keeping the wind out in my experience...like i've had -30C/-20F and i was never cold in my upper body simply because the leather kept the cold out. I also had a simple little hanes sweater underneath

thanks for the suggestion though, i'll ask if they have that thickness. Also, any idea how heavy it would be? I really don't want it over 5 pounds

 

[Will Zach]

I think a bomber jacket made out of 3-oz goatskin will be slightly less than 5 lbs, or just about it. Best to ask the maker. Keep in mind that thick goatskin is pretty rare, not every maker has it. A Pakistani maker called Five Star has it, and an American maker called Johnson Leathers can probably get it. Having said all that, 2.5-oz should work too. As long as it is not thin goat. I had Cooper M-65 replicas in goat with quilted lining. Absolutely great for cold winters. Nothing gets through.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

I think a bomber jacket made out of 3-oz goatskin will be slightly less than 5 lbs, or just about it. Best to ask the maker. Keep in mind that thick goatskin is pretty rare, not every maker has it. A Pakistani maker called Five Star has it, and an American maker called Johnson Leathers can probably get it. Having said all that, 2.5-oz should work too. As long as it is not thin goat. I had Cooper M-65 replicas in goat with quilted lining. Absolutely great for cold winters. Nothing gets through.

wonderful, thanks a lot for being so helpful and giving me an informative reply.

 

[zebedee]

Both Aero and Simmons Bilt 's goatskins are warm, I think. My Aero Goat 50's Half Belt was good in Shanghai winters and SB offers both standard and thick goatskin (I like the standard weight one, although Aero's mid-weight goatskin feels a bit more substantial [there's probably not much in it, tbh]).

Steer and/or horse leather are thicker, but it's the layers underneath that make the difference. Troy blanket lining makes an Aero Badalassi steer Work Coat my winter jacket of choice, but it's really the sweater, t-shirts, hoodies under it that keep the warmth in. On what might seem like an odd note, goatskin is (at least for me) easier to sleep in due to its flexibility; this is quite handy if I'm in very cold temperatures with inadequate building insulation and/or needing to travel at weird times. The Aero goatskin jacket I have, when paired with a thickish hoodie, is really good for this.

 

[Ingramite]

I'm speaking from the experience of Texas winters only. My leather jackets do a poor job on their own when it comes to keeping me warm.

I ride a motorcycle so wind and abrasion resistance are where the leathers excell. For warmth I have to wear jackets that are roomy enough to layer under. Remember, I'm talking about Texas winters which are probably like short sleeve weather compared to what you are facing.

My thinking is that the warmth comfort difference between any two types of raw leather would be minimal. The linings, neck and sleeve closures would be more critical. Lightweight concerns would have me looking to modern high efficiency liner materials for greater insulation. When leather gets cold on the outside it's cold on the inside.

 

[GUYSWEETLAND]

Both Aero and Simmons Bilt 's goatskins are warm, I think. My Aero Goat 50's Half Belt was good in Shanghai winters and SB offers both standard and thick goatskin (I like the standard weight one, although Aero's mid-weight goatskin feels a bit more substantial [there's probably not much in it, tbh]).

Steer and/or horse leather are thicker, but it's the layers underneath that make the difference. Troy blanket lining makes an Aero Badalassi steer Work Coat my winter jacket of choice, but it's really the sweater, t-shirts, hoodies under it that keep the warmth in.

I agree with you.
It's warmer to wear many layers of thin cotton than to wear one thing on a cold day.
The air layer forms to prevent heat from escaping.
If you have enough clothes inside, a thick leather jacket is warm enough to keep the wind out.

The other way I often wear a fleece hood under a leather jacket in winter.
The fleece is really warm, so you can wear a leather.
The disadvantage is that the size of the jacket should be enough.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

I'm speaking from the experience of Texas winters only. My leather jackets do a poor job on their own when it comes to keeping me warm.

I ride a motorcycle so wind and abrasion resistance are where the leathers excell. For warmth I have to wear jackets that are roomy enough to layer under. Remember, I'm talking about Texas winters which are probably like short sleeve weather compared to what you are facing.

My thinking is that the warmth comfort difference between any two types of raw leather would be minimal. The linings, neck and sleeve closures would be more critical. Lightweight concerns would have me looking to modern high efficiency liner materials for greater insulation. When leather gets cold on the outside it's cold on the inside.

i think i just had cotton on the inside and some odd shiny material in the sleeves (not sure what, polyester or something)

but like i said, never even felt a breeze in the strongest of winds

 

[jglf]

I can’t tell any difference in warmth between my goatskin and cowhide jackets. It comes down to lining and what you are wearing underneath.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

thanks

 

[Aloysius]

Bear in mind that the B-10 (then B-15) was introduced because pilots found the goat/horse/cow pilot jackets they had before utterly useless in anything other than hot weather.

Those shells can be equally protective but the determining factor would be having a warm liner like quilting, wool, etc.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Melton wool shell, at least 18oz, or coating fabric, with leather reinforcement bits and pieces, the leather species won't matter as the shell would be wool, leather is only used to strengthen wear points.
Sandwiched lining like on the B-15C flight jackets or CHP jackets. One layer of thick nylon and one layer of wool/cotton batting. Could be Primaloft too if you don't mind using synthetics. But the wool cotton is not bad, the only thing is it will deteriorate many years down the road where as the Primaloft has longer half life. But nothing to worry about, it should last anyone's entire life time using it.
Or a thicker quilted lining, probably easier for most maker to do.

This set up should get you through most Canadian cities through the winter. But for those cold snaps you need down. There is no point to look stylish when it's below -10.

 

[photo2u]

When I have to ride in very cold weather, I like a thick steer with one thin layer of cashmere and another thicker leather of wool. Cashmere is the fabric used indoor. The coat and wool will stay at the coat rack.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

Melton wool shell, at least 18oz, or coating fabric, with leather reinforcement bits and pieces, the leather species won't matter as the shell would be wool, leather is only used to strengthen wear points.
Sandwiched lining like on the B-15C flight jackets or CHP jackets. One layer of thick nylon and one layer of wool/cotton batting. Could be Primaloft too if you don't mind using synthetics. But the wool cotton is not bad, the only thing is it will deteriorate many years down the road where as the Primaloft has longer half life. But nothing to worry about, it should last anyone's entire life time using it.
Or a thicker quilted lining, probably easier for most maker to do.

This set up should get you through most Canadian cities through the winter. But for those cold snaps you need down. There is no point to look stylish when it's below -10.

i already said i had a cotton lined bomber and never felt a shred of cold even on the coldest days. what you're suggesting is MASSIVE overkill

 

[Aloysius]

i already said i had a cotton lined bomber and never felt a shred of cold even on the coldest days. what you're suggesting is MASSIVE overkill

Out of curiosity, what's keeping you from considering another MA-1/B-15 jacket?