Getting my US Authentic A-2-ADVICE ON DETAILS

[Phantomfixer]

Hey Ace the USAAF HQ patch was not an issue item. I believe they were not put on jackets until 1943. The same year that the contract for the A-2 was cancelled. If I can recall an article I read... the decal/stencil was not applied until in a field depot or othet issuing unit. Now having said that some crew members did put on painted or sewn on Hq patches or numbered AF patches prior to the 1943 decal, in the field. Some were very nicely done some not so nice. My advice wear the jacket see if you like it, if you do send it back to USA, they will put in on for you. If you don't like the jacket then you can sell the jacket with no blemishes.

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

Thanks for the history Phantomfixer! Much appreciated I'll "meditate" on this a bit.

 

[Fiver64]

decal advice

Phantom's advice is sound. If you order a jacket with a patch or decal already applied, you may not be able to send it back if sized wrong. If there is any customization ordered, US Authentic will generally send you a jacket to try on, to make sure sizing is correct before building one for you........at least this has been my experience.

You may just want to leave it off anyway. A-2's can look very dressy just the way they are. Decals and patches, although cool, tend to "casualize" it a bit.

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

Thanks Fiver64. I only suggested the AAF HQ patch because I would be wearing a USAAF crusher cap and USAAF khakis with the jacket, so I thought that that it would compliment the look.

I'll be thinkin' about it.

 

[Edward]

You may just want to leave it off anyway. A-2's can look very dressy just the way they are. Decals and patches, although cool, tend to "casualize" it a bit.

I think there's a lot to be said for this. I was always one for no decals. I had, at the pound's peak, hoped to buy a GoodWear as John makes one which is (as the experts on here confirm) '1942' (I think) 'in a box', correct to the original contract specs and yet also what I would want in an A2, down to the colour of the knits. My plan for this was to go with no decals, as often in the Autumn or the Spring, when it is too warm for an overcoat and a blazer / suitcoat, but too nippy or otherwise unsuitable for a blazer/sportcoat alone, I will opt for a leather jacket for wearing to the office over collar and tie. A nineteen thirties casual look, I suppose. I have an Aero AN6552 which works well for that. Plans for the Goodwear went on the backburner for the long term when, just as I could afford one, the value of the pound went through the floor against the dollar, to the point where the jacket jumped up in price for me far enough to put it, if not wholly out of reach, at least to the point where I'd probably never be comfortable wearing it out anywhere.

Right before Christmas I fell in with a deal on an ELC repro of a RoughWear contract A2, at a great deal on ebay (somewhere around 20-25% less than the normal used price). Superb fit on me, the only thing I think I would change would be the USAAF decal, ideally. I like it being there - it makes the jacket distinctly different from all my other jackets which is nice, but Fiver64 is certainly correct in saying that it does give the jacket a more casual air. This works for me in some situations, though it would certainly be something I'd avoid in an 'only' leather jacket. It would, for instance, make me wary of wearing it anywhere I was representing the Department (as opposed to simply wearing it to and from work), lest the emblem be interpreted as any form of statement, political, cultural or otherwise.


(FWIW, I'm still gagging for a GoodWear.... the ELC is close enough my ideal that I won't be gonig for another A2, but I have my eye on a GoodWear Californian Ventura if ever the dollar drops enough agaist the pound again to make it competitive vis-a-viz Aero).

 

[nicholasb]

Goodwear Californian Ventura is amazing. Post some pics if you ever get one please - I would have one if I had the money and not already got 3 leather jackets.

 

[Spitfire]

Ace - what do YOU feel like?
We are not going to wear your jacket - you are.
if you feel like having a USAF decal on the shoulder - do it!
Many WWII jackets had it - just as many had not.
In my opinion you can go to extreems to make a jacket "look right" and it ends up looking like a christmastree from a Hollywood Warmovie.
(Squadronbadges, rank, pinups on the back what have you..)
Take a look in books and study the pictures of flyboys from back then.
Most of them just wore the jacket with nothin on it....but it's YOU choice. Not ours.

 

[herk115]

U.S. Authentic A-2

Hi, USAAFAcePilot.

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I'd like to add my $.02 to this discussion and help you find the jacket you want.

First of all, my qualifications for this subject: I spent ten years as combat aircrew in the U.S. Air Force, and in 1988 and 1989 I was "Leather Jacket Officer" in my unit as we procured the first reissue of A-2s to USAF personnel since WWII. In that time I had to do quite a bit of research to learn about A-2s, and though I'm a civilian now, that research and interest continues.

I make my points as they come to mind:

First of all, the A-2s of WWII DID NOT have hand warmer pockets! If you encounter an A-2 that does have those, it is not authentic.

Though you seem to have your heart set on a U.S. Authentic, I would warn you off of it. They simply are not good repros. They have defects that are apparent to any collector, and if, as was stated earlier in another member's post, you catch "A-2 fever," you will quickly wish you had not bought U.S. Authentic. Here is why I say what I say: U.S. Authentic generally uses hides which are far too thick and not nearly as supple as most wearers would like. Their liners are of a course weave twill and not authentic (it's like having your jacket lined with old Levi's). The epaulets are cheap, flimsy imitations of the firm, sturdy epaulets of an authentic WWII A-2, and are placed almost an inch too far forward, making the jacket stand out as a crude copy. The thread used in their construction has the consistency of cheap, thin polyester and not the thick cotton used in the wartime jackets. I highly encourage you to rethink U.S. Authentic, and be patient while you save the additional money necesary for a higher fidelity repro. That said, I would go to U.S. Authentic for hand painted patches and name strips. Their accessories are generally good.

The repros I would (and have) spend my money on are Eastman/History Preservation Associates, Real McCoys, Aero Leather/Aero Leather USA, Lost Worlds, and Good Wear. Don't waste your money on anything else.

I would avoid any others, and this applies to Gibson & Barnes/Flight suits. While their workmanship and materials are generally good, their design is more in line with the current issue A-2 (and I'm talking about their "historic" A-2) than with the wartime design. Basically, with Gibson & Barnes, you will have a very well made piece of junk.

Give serious consideration to Ebay. With only two exceptions over the last 20 years, I have purchased my A-2s from Ebay. Careful communication and a seller with a good return policy will very likely get you the jacket you are looking for, and for a much lower price than from a dealer.

Now, as for what to wear. We all want our A-2s to look flashy, but after two decades of A-2 collecting, I have found BIG TIME that no truer statement was ever made than "less is more." A jacket plastered with bomb group or fighter squadron patches and the back adorned with semi-pornographic nose art is the true sign of a wanna-be than of a serious collector, much less the sign of someone who really flies. I would avoid nose art altogether and it sounds like you've already de cided on this. As for other patches, I would heed the advice given in an earlier post about not wearing anything you didn't earn. I have adorned my A-2s with various patches, but they all represent a unit or event I had some official connection to. On a different forum I read a post from a young lad about to enter pilot training and he hoped he would be assigned to a unit that had "cool patches." His post was answered by a veteran who admonished him that "The coolest patches are the ones you earned." As a veteran, I can attest to that statement. Though hardly inspiring, the emblems of the units I flew in bring immense pride and self-satisfaction when I wear them on my A-2. If you never served in the military, you can still adorn your jacket quite honestly and authentically, if that is your desire. A friend of mine, though never in the military, owns a 1940 Aeronca 7AC Champ, orange in color, which he has named "Orange Crate." Great name! His patch and nose art reflect not his secret wish to have flown a B-17, but his actual experience in the cockpit of Orange Crate, and it looks really cool! I personally would have much more respect for a guy who never flew anything hotter than a 172 who put art or patches reflecting his 172 experience on his jacket, than a 172 pilot who adorned his A-2 with bomb group or fighter patches. Even adverstising your experience in a modest aircraft like a 172 will bring you much self-satisfaction, because it represents something you really did! If you are looking for a legitimate reason to adorn your jacket with something a little more Army Air Corps-ish, join Civil Air Patrol. After all, CAP has its roots in WWII and you can redo your unit's squadron patch in a WWII motif and wear it proudly. There are many other organizations which will allow you to be able to do this.

But what to wear? At the VERY MOST, on my own A-2s, I wear a name strip, my squadron patch, my rank, and maybe (but rarely) the HQ "winged star" patch or numbered air force patch. Remember, "less is more." Notice the pictures of wartime crews. With few exceptions they wear but a name strip and their rank. Rarely anything else. It's the peripherals that make the jacket stand out: the crusher cap, pink trousers, overseas cap, etc. Aagain, "less is more."

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but go to www.acmedepot.com and click on their A-2 page. This website will tell you everything you need to know about buying a repro (or vintage) A-2. Please read it before you buy anything!

There are probably many other bits of advice I could give you, but the hour is late and I must do my laundry. If I can be of any further help, let me know.

Cheers, and Happy Landings!

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

herk115,

Thank you for the incredible advice! However, at this time, I can only afford the US Authentic A-2.

Might I suggest this link:

http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/flight_jackets/flight_jackets.html

 

[Fletch]

The US Authentic is a tough, hard-wearing jacket. Don't know what size you are, but I have one I am thinking of selling. It's a 40, russet horsehide, and cut (in my opinion) long. Interested? Let me know.

US-A's are typically cut long - my A-2 has about 1 1/2" extra sleeve and body length compared to a similar size from other makers.

They are a good deal for the price AND a good deal better than "mall jackets." Unlike mass-market product, they fit crisply and there are no geegaws.

Because of the economics of scale, that kind of simplicity is a luxury in itself. It is part of what you pay for in a US-A that you don't get in (say) a Wilsons, US Wings or Cockpit. (You'll pay for it in a Cockpit - you just won't get it. Their customer has a premium budget but mass-market tastes.)

US-A doesn't use vintage materials or techniques - they're not trying to. Sourcing horsehide at all is pricey today, never mind getting the weight or tanning Just Right, applying 1/8" topstitching and all the rest.

Look elsewhere for a true replica. And look quick - they're getting steeper all the time, as horse processing becomes all but outlawed. Meanwhile, US-A fills a rather large niche no other maker will.

 

[442RCT]

A jacket plastered with bomb group or fighter squadron patches and the back adorned with semi-pornographic nose art is the true sign of a wanna-be than of a serious collector, much less the sign of someone who really flies.

You'll have to pardon me, but I find your statement rather fatuous. How many guys currently buying and wearing A-2s and G-1 flight jackets actually do or did fly fighters or bombers in WW 2 ? What is a "serious" collector ? A collector of what ? Serious A-2s ? Serious vintage A-2s from WW2 that aren't patched nor adorned with pin-up girls on the back ? Serious genuine, authentic reproductions that reproduction collectors can pick over the minutiae of every facet of construction ? If I wear an unadorned, ELC / RMJ / Aero / Good Wear, will you respect me in the morning ?

 

[Edward]

There have been a fair few threads on these issues already in the past (you'll find 'em if you search), and it's a strongly emotional issue for a lot of people, whether it's acceptable to wear rank/adornments/group patches/ whatever. TBH, the debate is getting rather stale by this point... perhaps we should simply all shake hands like gentlemen and thank those who fought Bad Hitler so that we have the luxury of debating such opinions today?

Personally, I'd like to see the thread veer back in the direction of discussion the mid priced replica lines.... the more one knows the better on this subject; after all, that's what seaprates the eBay fifty dollar steal of the century from 'meh, overpaid a little', isn't it?

 

[Fiver64]

Hi, USAAFAcePilot.
The repros I would (and have) spend my money on are Eastman/History Preservation Associates, Real McCoys, Aero Leather/Aero Leather USA, Lost Worlds, and Good Wear. Don't waste your money on anything else.

Herk's advice is well-researched and generally sound......great addition to the cumulative knowledge of the FL......... BUT, you overlook one point that seems to the hinge on which most purchases are made........BUDGET.

Yes, US A may not be as authentic (but owning a HH from them, I can attest that mine does NOT have all of the flaws you mention, and is a well built jacket, although not dead-on as others) but when I only had, or was willing to spend, so much budgeted cash, it proved an acceptable choice for me.

Many wrongly assume that we all demand the exactness of the Good Wear, Eastman and others. I don't. I'm guessing that many folks don't either, for whatever reasons. For us, getting "close enough" to make us happy is just fine. Unless you can find a good used A-2, the fact is that US A is half the price of the high end makers and perhaps this is good enough for many of us.

IMHO....... it's a gift to offer well-researched advice (and I always appreciated in the intent that it was delivered, when requested), BUT this topic has been beaten to death repeatedly. If I see that someone has arrived at a decision based on whatever is important to them, and they are excited about it....... I see no reason to rain on their parade. Let's all SHARE in their excitement!!! Again, IMHO......... if someone asks for advice on which jacket to buy, etc, then it's an invitation to offer advice. If they simply say, "This is what I just bought", it's not necessarily an implied invitation. I fear, that to do otherwise may drive folks away from the FL. We all lose then.

USAAFAce, do what YOU think is best for YOU. Period. I'm excited for you!

Herk, I truly look forward to learning from your service and research experiences. I thank you (all all vets) for your years of service to this country. Please don't take the above rant as an attack on you, I know you offer sound advice and are very welcome in the FL!

 

[Fletch]

What is a "serious" collector ?

Usually, a hypothetical person who would not do, want, or buy something the speaker disdains.

Personally, I'm more curious who Ed means when he mentions Bad Hitler. Was there a Good Hitler?

 

[Fiver64]

If I wear an unadorned, ELC / RMJ / Aero / Good Wear, will you respect me in the morning ?
QUOTE]

That depends...... did you eat crackers in bed while wearing your unadorned A-2???

Great nose-art pics, BTW!

 

[442RCT]

If I wear an unadorned, ELC / RMJ / Aero / Good Wear, will you respect me in the morning ?
QUOTE]

That depends...... did you eat crackers in bed while wearing your unadorned A-2???

Great nose-art pics, BTW!

:eusa_doh: I've read threads where guys have worn their A-2s to bed in order to break them in faster...I haven't gone that far yet.

 

[fedoralover]

Hey guys.
As of now, I am headed for the US Authentic A-2. So, just give me anything on the US Authentic A-2 that you have to say. (pictures, stories, fit, advice, etc)

Okay so you asked.

Just a few years ago I was on the same boat as you. At the time I didn't want or need an extremely authentic A-2. So I settled on the USAuthentic for the exact same reasons you have already stated. When I got it I was excited at first, but then I noticed a defect in an epaulet also the leather had a plastic like finish on it, the sleeves were way too long. I had told them the lenght I wanted and they sent out the long ones anyway. The zipper seemed very lightweight for the weight of the leather and I doubted it would hold up, maybe it would have, but it seemed cheap to me for the money I paid. I ended up sending it back and getting a refund. For a few hundred dollars more I got an Aero Real Deal from the USA dealer Mark Moye and have been very happy ever since with it. It isn't the "most accurate" either it relation to the others, ie. Eastman,Goodwear, but it is much much closer than the USAuthentic and the leather has more character and is a much higher quality. Waiting a few extra months to get an Aero is a decision I haven't regretted.

Everyone has different likes and dislikes and as you can see, many here are happy with the USauthentic and maybe you will be too. But you would be happier and more satisfied by going to the next level. IMHO.

Remember, a few extra months of waiting will pale in comparsion to the frustration of having a jacket you wished you hadn't of bought and then ended up selling at a loss and then getting a better one anyway.
fedoralover

 

[Fletch]

:eusa_doh: I've read threads where guys have worn their A-2s to bed in order to break them in faster...I haven't gone that far yet.

I have. But I didn't sleep well.

I think the only way to sleep soundly in an A-2 is in a moving vehicle, ideally in the air.

BTW, my US-A is a beater, bought used and currently awaiting a new back liner panel.

 

[Fiver64]

I think the only way to sleep soundly in an A-2 is in a moving vehicle, ideally in the air.
QUOTE]

You don't fly for Northwest, do you???

 

[P5640blouson]

It depends on the look you are going for.

It depends on the look you are going for. To the finicky, crisp details will stand out, making fine replicas stand out as something truly special. Lets be honest- how many times have you seen a person wearing a generic jacket that looked like a fast decision from a mall store? On first glance it may look like something fine, but as soon as you focus in on the details and overall fit of the jacket on the wearer, the truth comes out and often very dissapointingly. But! if a person is wearing a fine fitting something or other, you tend to notice and study the details looking for answers as to why the garment is so fine. I don't want to look like like I compromise as I don't compromise much and so I'd rather save for the fine jacket and wear something out of genre and cheaper for the time being. YMMV