Getting a 40s suit (or two) tailor made

[WA]

The history of clothes is interesting. For awhile tailors for the large extent were the rulers of fashion. Then Levi pretty much invented manufacture clothing. Fashions certainly moved into RTW. If you put something new in front of your customers and they like it they want to buy it- the more new- the more sells. At one time suits, blazers, sports coats were it for men. But like everything times change. Would you wear a suit mt. biking? How about skate boarding? skiing? mountain climbing? And so it goes. Today there are more choices to choose from and suits, blazers, sports coats were pretty much forgotten.

"Time has got to pay for itself, and better yet bring in a profit." Manufactures put a lot of time into reseach (figureing out what to make and how to make it), because they sell by the thousand to millions, they get there money back, or lose their shirt. Whereas, you bring in something to a tailor (most know a great deal more about making patterns) he has to spend the time figureing out how to make it- if he spends to much time he is into the red. Another problem is when a generation that made those clothes die, so does there knowlege and skill. For example, how many tailors and manufactures today know how to press like in the old days? On top of that they each had there own methods. And, what company makes the irons that they used back then? An old tailor was showing me his dad's 20# iron and his own 20# iron, these only work on cloth 16oz. and heavier, so he says. When you bring something in to a tailor he can only work with materials that are available today. And that you are only bringing in one variation of the day, when there could have been hundreds. So what you get could actually be authenic, except for the materials.

If you live near a college that has classes on threater clothes you might find them rather fun to take.

That picture -- Mr. 'H' - I just would love to have a suit cut like Cary Grant's in "His Girl Friday" -- has heavier hymo in it than what is used today for that weight outer cloth. Haircloth may not have been invented yet, for the chest cloth, so a piece of hymo would have been used in it's place. A lot of the outer cloth has been shaped on a tailors ham and not pressed on the flat. That is a nice coat!!

 

[Mr. 'H']

a piece of hymo

definition please....

tailors ham and not pressed on the flat

definition please....

Please elaborate. Thanks WA.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Would you wear a suit mt. biking? How about skate boarding? skiing? mountain climbing?

All except skateboarding. No, actually ... skateboarding? Why not?

A well constructed suit should give the ease of movement to be able to do all of those. Action back would help in all those sports. And a good vintage suit would cost probably less than the ridiculous trousers the skateboarders seem to prefer .

There's an excellent image (which i can't right this moment lay my hands on) of the future Edward VIII on a ranch in america in a three piece suit coralling some horses - himself on a horse, of course. A good example of a suit standing up to sport-type punishment.

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Now, if someone were to specialise in suit styles of the era they would make a killing. We'd all be getting them to do work for us! They'd be inundated.

I'm not so sure. They would have to charge a lot of money for each suit, unless everybody -- and I mean everybody -- that has ever looked at the Lounge really went ahead and bought a suit (or two, or three). I know you said what you did with your tongue half in cheek, but I stand by my case.

Back around 1990, two guys formed a company called New Republic Clothiers. At first, they specialized in making faithful reproductions of 1930s men's dress shirts, suits, sportcoats, trousers, tuxedos and smoking jackets. They sold their merchandise through such hip (and large) vintage stores as American Rag Cie in L.A. Know what happened? The volume was just too low. Department stores refused to carry their merchandise. After about 3 years, New Republic completely revamped their designs, moving away from '30s and toward hip, Banana Republic '90s. The department stores welcomed them with open arms.

J. Peterman's offerings resemble those of the early New Republic, but with one crucial difference: much of Peterman's clothing, while looking great on the surface, is shoddily made. (I'm thinking mainly of his cotton/linen items, suits, and sportcoats.) Peterman uses cheap linings, too few stitches per inch, and his buttonholes are awfully finished. In contrast, New Republic's early clothing was of exceptional quality, comparable to vintage work. And no, it wasn't inexpensive.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

In case anyone is interested, I know a tailor who got his start by working in Warner Bros. wardrobe dept. around 1950. This fellow knows all about taped seams, etc., because he made or altered suits from all eras. I've never asked him to recreate a vintage suit, but I know in my gut he'd be up for the challenge.

Academy Tailor Shop.
23 N. Catalina Ave
Pasadena, CA 91106-2301
(626) 578-1027

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I just would love to have a suit cut like Cary Grant's in "His Girl Friday"

I recently traded a nearly identical suit -- in fabric and cut -- to Daniel Riser. In fact, he wore it to the Queen Mary.

Here it is below. Uncanny, eh?

 

[WA]

Mr. 'H'

Hymo- canvas- highly resilient interfacing made of worsted goat hair and cotton. It comes in many weights, the best one being determined by the weight of the outer cloth. It's function in a coat is to reinforce the front and keep it permanently trim. A lot of tailors, nowadays, use horse hair canvas. But, there are other canvases out there, too. You can see pictures of both the hymo and haircloth at www.sewtrue.com

Haircloth- a wiry interfacing whose woof (crosswise yarns (threads), also known as weft or filler) is hairs from the manes and tails of horses. The Brits use a different haircloth than the Americans, and it too, has hairs from the manes and tails of horses. This stuff is used in the chest area.

So the hymo goes from top to bottom, from the underarm dart seam to the lapel edge. There area number of ways of cutting it from the underarm down. Underneath the hymo goes a piece of haircloth, there are a number of ways to cut it to. A strip of linen canvas goes across the top of the hymo at the shoulder. Felt goes over all of the haircloth, or at least some of it. These things are pad stitched. Some tailors don't put in the linen or the hair cloth, and some add wadding. So there are a number of combinations, darts, cuts and spreads. Some tailors pad stitch it loose and others put shape into it.

Tailors Ham- is like a ham in the meat department, or you could say oval shape like and egg. They are about 15"-18" long and 10"-13" wide. Stuffed with wool or cedar sawdust. Most natural fibers in a woven yarn are shapable with something round like a press mitt, sleeve roll, or tailors ham. Put the cloth over it, then a wrung out wet rag (ruff side down- to prevent shine), and then the heavy hot iron, and the cloth will take some shape. For example, the small end of the ham toward the waist and the big end toward the chest or hip. Some tailors believe in stretching and shrinking on the flat. Some believe in using curved seams. Others use a combination.

So you see there are many ways to make a jacket. Each tailor does what he thinks will produces the finest looking jacket.


Mr. Kurtz

In the olden days skiiers and mountianeers did wear suits. The mountiineering skills got much better and equiment got better and they were more likely to find themselves in dangerous weather conditions, getting further away from huts and higher up, and they were getting more daring, so their clothes changed to meet there needs of better element protection. One famous mountaineer does wear wool slacks. And skiing clothes have changed like wise.

Skate boarding produces holey clothes. Elbow pads:cheers1: knee pads help but, what about seat pads?:cry:

 

[John in Covina]

used in the movies?

I have visited the Universal Sudios, and it seemed that a lot of suits were made by studio tailors and seamstresses, when they are going for a certain look. Also they might jazz up a regular suit abit with alterations if posible.

Best wishes,

John in Covina

 

[Salv]

40's suits in London

Hi all, I've just joined and this is my first post, so I hope it's useful.

Mr 'H' - Rather than risk having a suit made up by a tailor that doesn't really know what you want you could consider Rocacha Tailoring http://www.rocacha.com/suits.htm in London. They have a range of retro suits, including a 40's S/B (the Cotton Club from that link) and a 40's D/B. Fabrics range from polyester, to poly/wool mix to pure wool, with a good range of lining fabrics too. They used to have a shop in Kensington Market from about 1981 until the Market closed down in the late 90's, and I've bought at least 7 suits from them over the years.

I lost track of them after the shop shut, but found their website earlier this year, and I had a 40's S/B suit made up last month in a lovely mottled dark blue worsted, with very subtle dark blue and dark red windowpane checks. The trousers were their Zoot style, although with a straight waistband rather than the fishtail. They are modelled on an original 40's pattern and are high waisted with a very full leg, twin pleats, 1.5" turnups, dropped belt loops - they make the best trousers I've ever worn, and they drape beautifully.

They have basic plain and chalk stripe fabrics listed on their order page, but if you visit them at their premises in South Kensington (maybe not that easy if you live in Dublin...) they have dozens of other fabric samples to look through. My worsted suit was ?Ǭ£445 - it doesn't have some of the nicer details such as working cuff buttons, or real lapel button holes, but it's a made to measure suit at a price far lower than I'd expect to pay from a normal tailor, and in a style that I'd never expect to get from a normal tailor.

I still wear a couple of 40's D/B's that I bought from them in the late 80's - one is a grey herringbone Tweed with a light blue windowpane check, the other is a Border Tweed similar to this Glen Darroch www.harristweedshop.com/tweeds-border-03.html but darker.

You can see some of their suits being worn on the 'About Us' and 'Links' pages on their site.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Wow Salv,

That's a place I've never heard of, and to which I'll give some serious consideration.

Do you have a picture of the '40s DB on you?

BTW - welcome to the Fedora Lounge! Thanks for a very informative and well thought out first post.

 

[Salv]

Thanks for the welcome Mr 'H' - I've put up some pictures here
http://homepage.mac.com/salvmac/Tweed/PhotoAlbum14.html
that were taken by a photographer called Nick Clements for a book due for publication early next year. I'd like to be able to insert them staight into a post though - how can I do that?

Edit: maybe like this...

The book is a series of recreations of youth cults from 1955 to 1965, and includes an essay by Nick about a new subculture called Dad's Style - I think that's the section that will feature my photos. I happened to meet him in a cafe in Bath - I'd gone down there for the day with my family and he was scouting locations for the book. He asked if I'd be interested in having some pictures taken for the book, and these were taken in July in the side streets near Waterloo station in London. There are more pictures from the book on Nick's website http://www.nickclements.co.uk/folio.html - click on the 1955-1965 link, although they're all 50's and 60's retro so may not be of much interest to most people here.

 

[BellyTank]

Welcome Salv- that loks like an Old Town tie...

B
T

 

[Salv]

Welcome Salv- that loks like an Old Town tie...

B
T

Thanks for the welcome BellyTank, and well spotted - it's a Saffron Walden.

 

[Barry]

Hi all, I've just joined and this is my first post, so I hope it's useful.

Mr 'H' - Rather than risk having a suit made up by a tailor that doesn't really know what you want you could consider Rocacha Tailoring http://www.rocacha.com/suits.htm in London. They have a range of retro suits, including a 40's S/B (the Cotton Club from that link) and a 40's D/B. Fabrics range from polyester, to poly/wool mix to pure wool, with a good range of lining fabrics too. They used to have a shop in Kensington Market from about 1981 until the Market closed down in the late 90's, and I've bought at least 7 suits from them over the years.

Do you own the Cotton Club suit? If so, what pair of trousers did you select to go with it? I really like that suit - I am considering ordering it. I need to go to the tailor tomorrow to have a tweed jacket altered and I will ask him to take all of my measurements.

Thanks,

Barry

 

[Salv]

Do you own the Cotton Club suit? If so, what pair of trousers did you select to go with it? I really like that suit - I am considering ordering it. I need to go to the tailor tomorrow to have a tweed jacket altered and I will ask him to take all of my measurements.

Thanks,

Barry

I got the Peg trousers, which are essentially the same shape as the Zoot trousers but with a straight waist rather than the fishtail. From the front they look exactly the same as the Zoots on the Trouser page, but they don't have the fishtail back as seen in the photo at the bottom of the page, and don't have buttons for braces.

 

[Barry]

I got the Peg trousers, which are essentially the same shape as the Zoot trousers but with a straight waist rather than the fishtail. From the front they look exactly the same as the Zoots on the Trouser page, but they don't have the fishtail back as seen in the photo at the bottom of the page, and don't have buttons for braces.

Thanks. Went to the tailor and they took my measurements for a nominal fee. Nice father and son operation - they're altering my harris tweed jacket.

Once I hear back from Rob I'll probably place an order for the Cotton Club.

Barry

 

[Salv]

Thanks. Went to the tailor and they took my measurements for a nominal fee. Nice father and son operation - they're altering my harris tweed jacket.

Once I hear back from Rob I'll probably place an order for the Cotton Club.

Barry

That's great. What fabric are you thinking of going for?

I'm going to give him a call after Christmas to get some trousers made up. He had some nice blue, grey or brown worsteds with multi-coloured flecks - I didn't think they'd look right made up into a suit, but the trousers would go perfectly with a nice long-sleeved gaberdine shirt.

While we're talking tweed I've been thinking of buying a length of one of these Breanish Tweeds and asking Rob if he can make up a 40's D/B for me. I'm torn betwen the Stornoway Blue, Lewis Heather and Grey Blue Check. The Breanish tweeds are woven by a small company on the island of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides and are lighter than the Harris tweeds - 11oz. rather than 19 or 20oz. There's a very nice looking 3-piece S/B on this page on the Breanish site, and the D/B is quite a nice shape as well.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

A couple of excellent sites. I'm sure there'll be more than a couple of people here interested ...

Breanish tweed. hadn't heard of those guys before. Yet another reason i can't wait to get back to Scotland. Funnily enough all my reasons revolve around tweed in one way or another. I must be getting old :cry:

bk

 

[Salv]

Breanish tweed. hadn't heard of those guys before.
bk

I only came across Breanish Tweed while I was looking for Harris tweeds. The harristweedshop.com site had those samples I linked to before, so I then googled for Breanish Tweed, looking for more examples, and found their own site.

I must be getting old :cry:

I prefer to think of it as more mature...