German & Austrian Hutmachers

[PanosChris]

And an imported JHS "Jota" velour for Dunn&Co

The felt is probably pre-war. Unfortunately the overwelt is a later modification.

 

[steur]

And an imported JHS "Jota" velour for Dunn&Co View attachment 327948 View attachment 327949 View attachment 327950 View attachment 327951 View attachment 327952 View attachment 327953 View attachment 327954 View attachment 327955
The felt is probably pre-war. Unfortunately the overwelt is a later modification.

Now that is a pretty hat! Lovely hat, Panos. Makes me wonder though what would happen if you'd take the overwelt stitches out.

 

[PanosChris]

Now that is a pretty hat! Lovely hat, Panos. Makes me wonder though what would happen if you'd take the overwelt stitches out.

Stefan thanks! I have the same thoughts. Problem is, if the experiment is a failure, Fleur is quite far from me

 

[steur]

Stefan thanks! I have the same thoughts. Problem is, if the experiment is a failure, Fleur is quite far from me

From Oslo to Esch? You could do that by bicycle!
You could start off by asking her what she thinks of the chances of success.

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks Stefan. I'm really pleased with this one due to several reasons. It's not an often seen maker but is very well made, it has some age to it, and it has a Danish connection. I got it for a good price too.

Lovely topper, Steve. Too bad about the size. Larger sized toppers are rare though and don't come cheap.

 

[Steve1857]

Wonderful hat, Panos. Love the Dunn & Co liner, too.

And an imported JHS "Jota" velour for Dunn&Co View attachment 327948 View attachment 327949 View attachment 327950 View attachment 327951 View attachment 327952 View attachment 327953 View attachment 327954 View attachment 327955
The felt is probably pre-war. Unfortunately the overwelt is a later modification.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Matt, Here you go. I replied to a post back in 2019 but the poster never replied back

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/german-austrian-hutmachers.32103/page-360#post-2499865

The "Marke Greif" belonged to supplier Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co. Frankfurt am Main. The advertisement below is from 1950.

I don't believe they made hats so they sourced from hat companies. In this 1936 advertisement they were a supplier of Rockel (see below).

Interesting thought, Matt. Did not make the connection myself. As luck would have it, I own a Marke Greif hat. Just to compare here are a few pics.

View attachment 327941 View attachment 327942 View attachment 327943

Vauka is most likely an acronym of VAtter Und KAltenback.

Here's the Trescher again for comparison:
View attachment 327944 View attachment 327945

And one in the same colour scheme: Wotan Homburg. Very similar to the Greif in its styling. I just noticed the lower case o in the WoTAN name. So it could very well be an acronym, like Vauka is as well.

View attachment 327946 View attachment 327947

Many thanks, Steve and Stefan, for the quick additions:

Hmmm, I can see at first glance that the "Marke Greif" logo
in all our examples is completely different to the griffin head:
60s/70s (?) hat from the bay

So it seems that my considerations were not as fruitful
as I hoped. It was worth a try...

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Here is one of those unknown brand pre-war woolies, I got just recently View attachment 327921 View attachment 327920 View attachment 327923 View attachment 327924 View attachment 327925 View attachment 327926 View attachment 327927 View attachment 327929 View attachment 327930 Not quite sure what is written on the stamp and whether "21" is the production year. It shares some elements (label, brim finish) with the "Germania" I got from @steur

If I see it correctly, the stamp on the inside of the sweat reads:

"Aussor-
* 21
tierung"

= sorting out
But the stamp is really difficult to see, so just a hunch...

 

[steur]

Many thanks, Steve and Stefan, for the quick additions:

Hmmm, I can see at first glance that the "Marke Greif" logo
in all our examples is completely different to the griffin head:
60s/70s (?) hat from the bay

So it seems that my considerations were not as fruitful
as I hoped. It was worth a try...

It's alway worth looking into, Matt. These Greif hats are quite good actually, if one can make that assessment based on just one hat.

 

[PanosChris]

If I see it correctly, the stamp on the inside of the sweat reads:

"Aussor-
* 21
tierung"

= sorting out
But the stamp is really difficult to see, so just a hunch...

Matt thank you! It could well be that. I can confirm the "..ung" in the end and the "..ss" on top. I thought there was an "M" in the start of that but maybe it's an "A" (and then "u"). The rest are just a guess from my side

 

[PanosChris]

Wonderful hat, Panos. Love the Dunn & Co liner, too.

Steve, thank you! A lucky get for sure

 

[steur]

Here is one of those unknown brand pre-war woolies, I got just recently View attachment 327921 View attachment 327920 View attachment 327923 View attachment 327924 View attachment 327925 View attachment 327926 View attachment 327927 View attachment 327929 View attachment 327930 Not quite sure what is written on the stamp and whether "21" is the production year. It shares some elements (label, brim finish) with the "Germania" I got from @steur

Missed this one for some odd reason. Very nice find, Panos. Always good to come across one of these pre-war woolfelt survivor hats.

 

[mayserwegener]

Again: a marvelous find! Love the colour and the thickness of the velour is almost tangible from the pictures alone.

Stefan, Thanks again! The Velour is really fantastic.

 

[mayserwegener]

Here is one of those unknown brand pre-war woolies, I got just recently View attachment 327921 View attachment 327920 View attachment 327923 View attachment 327924 View attachment 327925 View attachment 327926 View attachment 327927 View attachment 327929 View attachment 327930 Not quite sure what is written on the stamp and whether "21" is the production year. It shares some elements (label, brim finish) with the "Germania" I got from @steur

Panos, Super! I will have to put together a list of all Wool Soft and Stiff Felt hats with similar paper labels. Personally I have a bunch of them but I have never been able to figure out the source (Hat company or Distributor / Wholesaler).

Update!

I initially overlooked "Liebsgen" on the paper and it turns out this was a name of village in East Bradenburg (post WWII Poland "Lipsk Żarski") and not very far (49 km / 30 miles) from Guben which was the major Wool Soft and Stiff Hat production center in Germany up to WWII. I think this is good evidence that these Wool Soft and Stiff Felt hats with the same type of paper labels came from a Guben source(s).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipsk_Żarski

 

[mayserwegener]

And an imported JHS "Jota" velour for Dunn&Co View attachment 327948 View attachment 327949 View attachment 327950 View attachment 327951 View attachment 327952 View attachment 327953 View attachment 327954 View attachment 327955
The felt is probably pre-war. Unfortunately the overwelt is a later modification.

Panos, Great find! There was a lot of movement of stock post WWII. I think this one might fall into that category. Dunn & Co. had a relationship with JHS prior to WWII, but who knows how they sourced this hat? Eventually Tonak marks are on the paper labels but this hat is probably from a transition period.

 

[mayserwegener]

Many thanks, Steve and Stefan, for the quick additions:

Hmmm, I can see at first glance that the "Marke Greif" logo
in all our examples is completely different to the griffin head:
60s/70s (?) hat from the bay

So it seems that my considerations were not as fruitful
as I hoped. It was worth a try...

Matt, I had forgotten about the "Marke Greif". As I mentioned the "Marke Greif" belonged to supplier Vatter & Kaltenbach & Co. Frankfurt am Main. I think they must have been operation until at the least 1970s (I made a quick search but couldn't find anything.). I don't think they made hats so they probably had many different sources over the years.

 

[mayserwegener]

Interesting thought, Matt. Did not make the connection myself. As luck would have it, I own a Marke Greif hat. Just to compare here are a few pics.

View attachment 327941 View attachment 327942 View attachment 327943

Vauka is most likely an acronym of VAtter Und KAltenback.

Here's the Trescher again for comparison:
View attachment 327944 View attachment 327945

And one in the same colour scheme: Wotan Homburg. Very similar to the Greif in its styling. I just noticed the lower case o in the WoTAN name. So it could very well be an acronym, like Vauka is as well.

View attachment 327946 View attachment 327947

Stefan, I was thinking you had a "Greif Marke".

"Vauka is most likely an acronym of VAtter Und KAltenback."

Super detective work! I am sure you are correct. The German distributors / wholesalers liked to use such acronyms.

"And one in the same colour scheme: Wotan Homburg. Very similar to the Greif in its styling. I just noticed the lower case o in the WoTAN name. So it could very well be an acronym, like Vauka is as well."

Is there a paper label? The liner type / construction looks similar to the "Marke Greif". I will have to see if I can find this "WoTAN" mark. I am thinking Mayser / Mayser Milz might have been the source.

 

[Steve1857]

Steve, I believe the Wotan Stefan posted is the one he sold to me. In fact, he very kindly went back to the store to pick it up for me. I was particularly taken by the wonderful art deco style tip logo and the name, Wotan. I'm a bit of a Wagner fan.

Anyway, here are photos of the label, sweat, and "impregnated" sticker.

As Stefan pointed out, the ornate letter creates both the W for Wotan and M for marke.

Interesting too that the label shows a punti size 5 and a cm size, 57, and that the "impregnated" sign is both in Italian and German.

Stefan, I was thinking you had a "Greif Marke".

"Vauka is most likely an acronym of VAtter Und KAltenback."

Super detective work! I am sure you are correct. The German distributors / wholesalers liked to use such acronyms.

"And one in the same colour scheme: Wotan Homburg. Very similar to the Greif in its styling. I just noticed the lower case o in the WoTAN name. So it could very well be an acronym, like Vauka is as well."

Is there a paper label? The liner type / construction looks similar to the "Marke Greif". I will have to see if I can find this "WoTAN" mark. I am thinking Mayser / Mayser Milz might have been the source.

 

[PanosChris]

Panos, Super! I will have to put together a list of all Wool Soft and Stiff Felt hats with similar paper labels. Personally I have a bunch of them but I have never been able to figure out the source (Hat company or Distributor / Wholesaler).

Update!

I initially overlooked "Liebsgen" on the paper and it turns out this was a name of village in East Bradenburg (post WWII Poland "Lipsk Żarski") and not very far (49 km / 30 miles) from Guben which was the major Wool Soft and Stiff Hat production center in Germany up to WWII. I think this is good evidence that these Wool Soft and Stiff Felt hats with the same type of paper labels came from a Guben source(s).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipsk_Żarski

Panos, Great find! There was a lot of movement of stock post WWII. I think this one might fall into that category. Dunn & Co. had a relationship with JHS prior to WWII, but who knows how they sourced this hat? Eventually Tonak marks are on the paper labels but this hat is probably from a transition period.

Steve thank you! Great research and info as always. Guben in Germany and Monza in Italy sound like the key producers of the old European woolies that some of us here love to find and/or own.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Anyway, here are photos of the label, sweat, and "impregnated" sticker.

Interesting too that the label shows a punti size 5 and a cm size, 57, and that the "impregnated" sign is both in Italian and German. View attachment 328231
View attachment 328232

Just as a small addition to the sign:
I think that is not German and Italian,
but "Imprägnol" is a (more or less) known product
for impregnation, that is still produced untill today
- i.e. "impregnated with this product" (in German).