German & Austrian Hutmachers

[Redfokker]

Mayser Milz & Cie slim brim with an interesting bow treatment. I spent the evening on Steve's website searching everything Mayser. I found one almost identical in form and ribbon treatment in grey tones. This hat was listed as 1970s. Based on the feel and lines of this Mayser, I can live with that dating. The plastic liner protector is in shreds, is it advisable to just remove it, or is that a bad thing? A couple of images are from Stefan, the front view is best on color.

 

[mayserwegener]

Mayser Milz & Cie slim brim with an interesting bow treatment. I spent the evening on Steve's website searching everything Mayser. I found one almost identical in form and ribbon treatment in grey tones. This hat was listed as 1970s. Based on the feel and lines of this Mayser, I can live with that dating. The plastic liner protector is in shreds, is it advisable to just remove it, or is that a bad thing? A couple of images are from Stefan, the front view is best on color.

Mike, I guess you read about the history of Mayser Milz and Cie. on my website. I think this hat could be 1970s. I think it's fine to remove the liner protector if it's a bother. This hat has a great look to it. The ribbon / bow is fantastic.

 

[steur]

Echter Brabant Haarhut Homburg size 58 cm or 7 1/4 US

Classic hat in black felt medium weight

Interesting ribbon in matching color with vertical lines. Wide 4 centimeters

Proportions are: curled brim at 5.5 cm. and crown at 10.5 cm. low point

It came, from Switzerland, with another black homburg and the Borsalino I wore yesterday

Interior with black and white lining and brand in various colors

The paper label in the interior is filled with a number, no size tag
I presume it was made in German

Steve for sure will help to identify this banker headwear

It's good looking homburg, Daniele. I find these Brabant hats now and again. These ribbons I find on occasion on hats from former east Germany.

 

[steur]

Kapelolfactophylia!! There must be ICD10 (diagnostic) code for that, Stef!!

Chapter V I suspect, Charlie! If not: where can I apply?

 

[steur]

Mayser Milz & Cie slim brim with an interesting bow treatment. I spent the evening on Steve's website searching everything Mayser. I found one almost identical in form and ribbon treatment in grey tones. This hat was listed as 1970s. Based on the feel and lines of this Mayser, I can live with that dating. The plastic liner protector is in shreds, is it advisable to just remove it, or is that a bad thing? A couple of images are from Stefan, the front view is best on color.

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If it doesn't have a function anymore, removing would make for a neater looking inside.

 

[Redfokker]

Mike, I guess you read about the history of Mayser Milz and Cie. on my website. I think this hat could be 1970s. I think it's fine to remove the liner protector if it's a bother. This hat has a great look to it. The ribbon / bow is fantastic.

Yes, the liner is glued in, so 70s seems like a good estimate. The plastic is coming out, I had to pick pieces of it out of my hair today. It is toast.

 

[mayserwegener]

I took photos of this treatise "Animal Hair of the Hat Industry, Herbert Rosenthal, Saxon University of Applied Sciences Textile Industry, Chemnitz, 1929" back in September 21, 2016 at the Gotisches Haus (Gothic House) Bad Homburg, Germany collection. I plan to translate and post articles of this treatise as time permits. The first section is "Experience with (Fur) Hair Quality" (see below).

A while ago I started to translate the entire treatise but only got to page 19 of 283 pages. It's worth taking a look at (see link) because it includes an overview of the treatise. Hopefully one day I will complete the entire translation.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...hair-the-hat-industry-herbert-rosenthal-1929/

(Click on Photos to Expand)

Animal Hair of the Hat Industry, Herbert Rosenthal
Saxon University of Applied Sciences Textile Industry, Chemnitz

Charges approved by the Technical University of Munich in order to obtain the dignity of DOCTOR OF TECHNICAL SCIENCES (Doctor of Agriculture) treatise.

Presented by Agronomist Herbert Rosenthal born in Luckenwald, Germany.

1. Reviewer: Professor Dr. Philosophy Heinz Henseler.
2. Reviewer: Professor Councillor Dr. Philosophy Theodor Henkel.

Date of filing of work 11th, February 1929
Date of acceptance of work 27th, February 1929

Animal Hair of the Hat Industry, Herbert Rosenthal, pages 117 - 119

§5 Experience with (Fur) Hair Quality

Before I get to a compilation of the hair qualities, I have to specify some experiences, which have been communicated to me by experts of the hat industry. Because it is of particular importance to take such practical data into account in the attempt to standardize.

The first distinguishing feature is the ability to feather the qualities hair. By this is meant the production of fine down-like hair on the surface after a good fulling. The whole hat gets a shiny, fine, soft texture and is very popular as a velour. Especially suitable for this are Hare backs, White Hare sides, Muskrat bellies, Beaver, also Nutria bellies.

The latter Fur hair qualities, however, are so rare that we can disregard them.

For the production of smooth and matt finish hats one uses especially the non-resilient Rabbit hair.

In general, the experts said that the best quality should always be the Hare back of mature skins. It is used, as already mentioned, for velour and long-haired finish hats. Above all, the great felt energy is praised for this quality. Furthermore, the toughness, strength and the fine noble gloss are known here. As far as the color is concerned, there are usually no particular differences in terms of this quality. Almost the same characteristics are shown on the white side of Hare skins, which fell in winter and originate from adult animals. Only these hairs are a little less glamorous. Back and white side of non-mature winter skins have a little lower gloss and not the toughness of the aforementioned qualities. They give a pretty good structure. Long coarse hairs should be more abundant here. Now follow backs and sides of the autumn skins. They do not give a bad structure. But their brilliance is significantly lower. Blue side of Hare skins show little shine. Their texture is almost spongy. Blue sides of non-mature winter skins are very little different. Back and sides of the summer skins behave again far less favorable. Belly skins of mature winter hares give a pretty good, firm structure. The same characteristics also approximately show the belly hair of immature winter and autumn Hares. Only here the long course hairs are found more abundant.

Wild Rabbit back has great and enduring feltability. Toughness should be almost as big as a mature Hare's back. Wild Rabbit side is not much worse. Only does not show the same tenacity. Wild Rabbit belly should behave in the processing often better than some Hare belly. Low energy shows the Garenne (area of pasture set aside for rabbits usually surrounded by stone walls) back.

The Hare belly should be almost the same as the back hair of the Tame Rabbit. Quality ash color often equals the Wild Rabbit in terms of workability. Very little should the structure of hutch grey differ. In contrast, black shows less robust structure. Very good felting ability can be found again at hutch Rabbit. The worst it is given home White Rabbit. The Colorful Rabbit behaves better.

Then the following qualities are distinguished mostly in the industry:

I. Hare backs, winter, mature
2. White sides, Hare, winters mature
3. Blue sides, Hare, winter, mature
4. Hare stomach, winter, mature
5. Back and sides, winter Hare not mature
6. Blue sides, winter Hare not mature
7. Hare belly, winter Hare not mature
8. Hare back and sides, autumn
9. Hare belly, autumn
10. Hare back and sides, summer
11. Hare belly, summer
12. Wild Rabbit back
13. Wild Rabbit sides
14. Wild Rabbit belly
15. Garenne back
16. Tame Rabbit belly
17. Hutch Rabbit gray back
18. Ash Color back
19. Hutch Rabbit back
20. Black Rabbit back
21. Multi Color back
22. Hutch white Rabbit back

These are the most common qualities. I was able to share some experiences. Some can be seen in the book by C. Bortfeld, a specialist in this field. The industry itself has difficulty obtaining such communications. Because most manufacturers want to keep their experience for themselves and evaluate themselves. Finally, I would like to characterize the breeding goal, which suggests the manufacturer. He prefers firm, elastic and dense skins with fine and tough hair. Suppleness, which increases with the hardness of the weather, is desired. Furthermore, precious luster, which depends on weather and age, is very popular. Especially bright colors are preferred. The moisture content may not exceed 2 percent if purchased.

 

[mayserwegener]

Have to remember this treatise was written from the German Hat Industry perspective. The focus is on Velour and Long Hair finishes because that was their specialty (and a very labor intensive process).

 

[steur]

Have to remember this treatise was written from the German Hat Industry perspective. The focus is on Velour and Long Hair finishes because that was their specialty (and a very labor intensive process).

Fantastic, Steve! It would be great to be able to read the whole treatise. The fact alone that there was a 283 page treatise written on the subject (and that is without regarding beaver and nutria qualities) tells us this was a science all on its own. I think a recurring viewpoint here on the lounge is that the felt-quality dropped after treating the hides with mercury-nitrate was banned. I think there is much more to the story than that considering that much of both the supply of these hides and the knowledge to select and handle them dwindled away over the years.

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes the quality of the fur is paramount. I have been told the fur quality today is not good for various reasons. Hare produced the finest Velour (high gloss and strength) but it was difficult to felt. The American hat companies also used Hare to make Velour (see below "Fur Types for Hats") although they never matched what was produced in Austria and Germany. I have never come across any evidence that the Italians made Hare based Hot Wet Brushed Velour prior to 1940s. The German and Austrian Hat companies considered Velour as the highest level and not smooth finishes. What is interesting is that the American hat companies had to import Rabbit and Hare from Europe because local species were not adequate. I have collected a great deal of detailed information on German and Austrian Felt and Felt Hat production but I have been slow to make it available.

I have learned that mercury nitrate was a factor. The last Factory Director (started mid 1950s) of Ebreichsdorfer Felt Hat Factory / S. & J. Fraenkel Wien told me the following.

"From the middle of the 1960 years only mercury-free hair has been processed."

Interesting that mercury nitrate was still in use in Europe up to the mid 1960s.

"Today only hydrogen peroxide pickling is used, although mercury-pickled hair, stored for half a year (matured), is second to none in quality."

Also having access to local / regional fur and cutting the fur was a big issue.

"Fur Types for Hats" The Crofut & Knapp Book, 1924, p. 42 (Courtesy of TheHattedProffesor.com)

See "The Hare".

 

[steur]

Found this Mayser green heather felt this week. Very soft, as heathers tend to be, and with an unusual construction of the sweatband; a stretching band with a leather piece in the front. Size 57, with a raw edge brim at 6,5 cm and a crown 10,5 cm at the pinch. Label states Atlanta-Modena. It was a lot more fluffy when it arrived on my doorstep, but I liked it better with the felt a bit more well groomed. I think this one is from the sixties or seventies.

 

[michael78]

Here's an interesting one I picked up last sunday. Wegener Elasticon bowler. Size 56, with a brim at 5,5cm and a crown height of 12cm. Unlined. From the auction pictures I thought it was a homburg, but it turned out to be a bowler. Still a bit lumpy and the sweatband has come loose from the reed tape. I decided to leave it like this. Quite early: thirties I guess, but could even be twenties. Interesting is that the label is partly in Dutch, so maybe made specifically for the Dutch market.

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This is what it looked like when I picked it up:


View attachment 107687

Great job poppin that dome out!!

 

[Redfokker]

Found this Mayser green heather felt this week. Very soft, as heathers tend to be, and with an unusual construction of the sweatband; a stretching band with a leather piece in the front. Size 57, with a raw edge brim at 6,5 cm and a crown 10,5 cm at the pinch. Label states Atlanta-Modena. It was a lot more fluffy when it arrived on my doorstep, but I liked it better with the felt a bit more well groomed. I think this one is from the sixties or seventies.

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Beautiful heather finish. You are on a roll with these lately. Love it. So many colors in that finish. Very impressive Stefan.

 

[mayserwegener]

Found this Mayser green heather felt this week. Very soft, as heathers tend to be, and with an unusual construction of the sweatband; a stretching band with a leather piece in the front. Size 57, with a raw edge brim at 6,5 cm and a crown 10,5 cm at the pinch. Label states Atlanta-Modena. It was a lot more fluffy when it arrived on my doorstep, but I liked it better with the felt a bit more well groomed. I think this one is from the sixties or seventies.

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Stefan, Super! I think it might be later than the 1970s. Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for later models. Masyer was fairly consistent with their production until fairly recently.

 

[steur]

Great job poppin that dome out!!

Thanks, Michael! I have had this problem before when a seller stuck two bowlers in a way too small box. They're never quite pristine after that, but still very wearable.

 

[steur]

Beautiful heather finish. You are on a roll with these lately. Love it. So many colors in that finish. Very impressive Stefan.

Mike, thanks. I do try and keep an eye out for heather finishes. The sweatband is quite comfortable by the way, but not as good as a nice soft leather one. The fit is perfect because of the stretching material, but the feel of leather is nicer.

 

[steur]

Stefan, Super! I think it might be later than the 1970s. Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for later models. Masyer was fairly consistent with their production until fairly recently.

Steve, thanks. It's hard to date these more modern ones because the models change so little. It's the leather strip on the sweat and the cloth crown patch which made me think it was a bit earlier.

 

[mayserwegener]

Old and New Hat.

The famous sculptor Schadow and the minister von Schuckmann were both diligent visitors to a Berlin reading club. The former used to go home early, but the minister was usually the last one in the company and was always picked up in his carriage. One evening the minister was again the last, and indeed the very last one. He found only a single hat in the dressing room. His hat was old and very used, but a brand new hat laid in front of him. If he did not want to go home bare headed, the minister had no choice but to put on his new hat. So he drove home in the stormy rain that had been going on for an hour. Early the next morning the minister was still lying in bed, the bell of his hotel was drawn, a servant brought the old hat of the minister and reported a recommendation by Mr. Schadow, asking for his hat, which His Excellency took yesterday from the Monday meeting. The following Monday, the minister received the following information from the old Schadow:

"I just bought a new hat last Monday. When I wanted to return home in the evening, it was raining heavily, and since I did not want to spoil my new hat, I took yours and thought: Your Excellency would drive mine home safely. "

(Anecdotes - Bibl. Vienna 1876, 2nd volume)

From the book (some day I will post and translate the entire book).

DER HUT -UND SEINE GESCHICHTE Eine kulturgeschichtliche Monographie, von Dr. O. Timidior Mit 85 Abbildungen Zeichnungen von Karl Heidrich (1914)

THE HAT AND ITS HISTORY A Cultural-Historical Monograph by Dr. Ing. O. Timidior With 85 illustrations Drawings by Karl Heidrich (1914)

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

What a great story!
Thanks for posting

 

[mayserwegener]

What a great story!
Thanks for posting

Matt, Thank you! I actually found an translated version (1903) so it must have been a fairly well known story. Some of this version is slightly different but the same story. Schadow passed away in 1850.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rGQ5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=von+Schuckmann+schadow&source=bl&ots=DzclRaRL7Z&sig=Wx7qWCb_800GBJpOFbQHo8Yvp6U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrprWstN3ZAhVDPN8KHbEZDp0Q6AEIPzAC#v=onepage&q=von Schuckmann schadow&f=false