gent's attire tutorial for the ladies?

[KittyT]

So I know a fair amount about vintage ladies clothing. I know jack about vintage men's clothing. Would some of you gentlemen like to provide some basic info (or even web links) about historical men's fashion trends? I know this is a broad topic, but I don't even know where to start.

EDIT: very, very basic info. The men's information provided in the Suits, Hats and General Attire threads is probably more detailed or specific than what some of us are interested in. Also, you have more threads with more posts and I am lazy.

 

[Adelaidey]

Yes, PLEASE!!!

I hear so many references to menswear details from the men, and all I can do is hope that I can figure out what they're talking about within the context of the sentence!

Someone please, help! Outside of the PR, I'm generally clueless about what the gents are talking about.

 

[Sweet Polly Purebred]

Great minds think alike ..

You know, I was too embarrassed to ask, but I wanted to take the Men's Attire 101 class too .. sign me up!

 

[Matt Deckard]

Hmmm
Any specific questions on what you've seen?

 

[Adelaidey]

Some questions....

Thanks MD...

What are the period differences (30s, 40s, 50s, etc) in menswear?
What's appropriate for daywear, evening, casual, etc.
What are some of the terms that you gents use most often when describing the details of the clothing?
What makes a good fit?
Properly accesorizing?
Any big brands, names, etc, we should know?

Thanks!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is why we've long needed a permanent FAQ section that includes such a tutorial (and other useful information).

.

 

[Jovan]

I'm willing to start one on the basic features of suits, ties, and shirts, Marc. Tell me what you need, ladies -- and any new gents/lurkers here who are just starting to dress up.

 

[Feraud]

What I would like to see are the ladies participating in a particular suit, jacket, or hat thread and ask these questions.
It would make discussions very interesting.

Btw, fashion faqs and stickies are good options too.

 

[KittyT]

Thanks MD...

What are the period differences (30s, 40s, 50s, etc) in menswear?
What's appropriate for daywear, evening, casual, etc.
What are some of the terms that you gents use most often when describing the details of the clothing?

yes, my main questions relate to period differences and suit-related vocabulary.

 

[herringbonekid]

Thanks MD...

What are the period differences (30s, 40s, 50s, etc) in menswear?
What's appropriate for daywear, evening, casual, etc.
What are some of the terms that you gents use most often when describing the details of the clothing?
What makes a good fit?
Properly accesorizing?
Any big brands, names, etc, we should know?

Thanks!

you could write a whole BOOK on this subject ! there's no way it could be summed up in one reply here. luckily you're reading one of the main vintage clothing resources on the web, so do some detective work and dig around old threads. don't be lazy !

 

[Rooster]

I asked these same questions when I started here a couple months ago. I got the same answers. These guys aren't being jerks, it's such a large subject there's really no place to start. There advice to me was" hang around for a while and you'll start to catch on". I've hung around and I'm starting to pick it up.
Read the posts , it's all in there, especially look at some of the longer threads and the photos that go with them. Excellent stuff. I havn't found anywhere else where this much information is available, you just have to be persistant and dig around a bit.
One (or several) of these guys needs to write a book......

 

[KittyT]

Well if anyone would like to post some links to particularly useful threads, that would be helpful too. The problem is that the gents' forums are larger and have more threads. They are more tedious to search through, and searching for threads is a bit more difficult if you're not familiar enough with the terminology to know how to search for what you want.

 

[Feraud]

The first four stickies in the Suit section provide good reading.
See-
Formal Wear Primer

Better fit

Businessman's wardrobe

Details and Options

I recommend this one too.

 

[manton]

'30s: fairly harmonious cut. Medium lapels. A more full chest ("drape") but a defined waist and trim skirt (the part around the hips).

'40s: more exaggerated. Wider lapels, wider shoulders, wider trouser legs.

'50s: heyday of the "sack." Natural shoulders, narrowish lapels, and very little (if any) waist. The beginning of the end for high rise trousers (that sit at the waist rather than the hips). Vests and hats also increasingly disappeared.

Men wore a suit (matching coat and trousers) to the office. An odd jacket and trousers was leisure wear. Even then, suits were common leisure wear, but in different fabrics and colors.

For business wear, dark blue and gray ruled. Brown was around, but seen less. Light colors were generally for spring and summer only. Suits were either solid, or one of a small number of classic patterns (for the most part). Stripes were by far the most common pattern, and really took off in the '40s.

For weekends and "the country" tweed was king -- as a suit, or as a jacket worn with gray flannel trousers. For summer, linen was popular.

In the 30s, at the upper end of the social scale, formal wear was worn frequently. It became more rare after the war. In certain circles, men wore black tie to dinner every night.

 

[KittyT]

Thank you, Manton! This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for

 

[carebear]

Well if anyone would like to post some links to particularly useful threads, that would be helpful too. The problem is that the gents' forums are larger and have more threads.

That's due to the Y chromosome.

 

[Lady Day]

Thats a great summery, Manton!

'40s: more exaggerated. Wider lapels, wider shoulders, wider trouser legs.

Now when you say this, what were the basic standards that brought about this 'exagerated change'? Was this a 'puff up' of the male look because of the war that carried on into the 50s?

Measurement standards?

Thanks for this guys

LD

 

[herringbonekid]

general vintage thoughts from Wild Root.....

http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4002

 

[Marc Chevalier]

'40s: more exaggerated. Wider lapels, wider shoulders, wider trouser legs.

Now when you say this, what were the basic standards that brought about this 'exaggerated change'? Was this a 'puff up' of the male look because of the war that carried on into the '50s?

Okay, I'll dip in. The info below refers to the U.S.A. only.


The exaggerated change was gradual; it began in the mid '30s (with the U.S. menswear industry's aggressive promotion of the British 'drape suit') and reached a beautiful midway point between 1937 and 1939. Suit manufacturers extolled the virtues of "building up a manly physique through clever tailoring tricks."


During the early '40s, the 'puff up' pendulum began to swing very far, resulting in extremely wide shoulders, flapping chests, and baggy pegged trousers, as per the 1941 image below:

Our entry into World War II put a temporary halt to this "wasteful use of fabric," but the exaggerated style -- now renamed "The Bold Look," or the "T shape" -- returned in force soon after 1945 and continued into the early 1950s, when it finally disappeared.


The dimensions varied somewhat every few years. More questions, anyone? A kiss from Lady Day?


.

 

[manton]

I would put it this way.

What we know as a suit jacket (same basic shape, long enough to just cover the seat) had by the early '30s been cut largely the same way since the late 1800s. Then London tailors began to alter the shape, making them look less formless and more shaped, like military coats. They nipped the waist, trimmed the skirt, and added "drape" to the chest to make the upper body seem larger. Some of them also built out the shoulders, which they thought better accomodated that drape. Throw in a tiny little armhole, and you had a coat that gave free reign to arm movement. This cut -- variously called the London Lounge, or British Blade, or English Drape (there are actually subtle difference between these three, but let's leave that aside for now) -- became internationally popular. It was especially a hit in Hollywood, which in turn helped make it known throughout the world in an era when millions went to the movies weekly.

Naturally, like all popular new things, it was copied. And like all fads, some copies were more exact than others. The key to the Drape was that slight extension of the shoulder and the fullness (excess cloth) in the chest and over the shoulderblades. Some of the people who copied it thought, "If a little is good, then more must be -- better!" So the shoudlers came out, and more drape was added. And to keep the overall cut consistent, everything else had to be enlarged as well. Remember that average height was shorter then and physiques smaller, so clothes that bulked a man up made a certain sense.

Some of those early 40s suits can look great, if a bit much given what we are used to today. Had the trend stopped there, things would have been great. But "drape" was taken to its logical conclusion and became "zoot." No doubt I'll tick someone off by saying this, but those things were silly even at the time, and they have not aged well.