G8 or Raider Jacket History

[nick123]

After reading the response from that "expert" at the Naval Aviation Museum re the G-8, I notice it is full of erroneous information pertaining to known Navy flight jackets. There never was an official Navy G-8, but it just goes to show that we must sometimes do a lot of digging to get the real answers.

I thought the same thing. Not in regards to any errors, but I had to wonder just how much research or digging went into the response. I think the experts' insight here would probably yield more information.

 

[Peacoat]

Yes, and thanks to Mojave Jack for getting the answer back in 2005. What a wealth of information the Lounge provides.

 

[nick123]

Yes, and thanks to Mojave Jack for getting the answer back in 2005. What a wealth of information the Lounge provides.

And as Stearman pointed out, there IS a picture here on the Lounge, somewhere, of what looks to be a G-8 1920-40s. I've tried to find it with no luck!

 

[Pat_H]

I've always believed the "G8-M440" to be an Averix design. Certainly I first came across it in the mid-80s in their catalogue, where they spouted a load of bull about it being a pre-war USN jacket. Most of the G8s I've come across have been Averix ones. I believe the other makers simply copied the design, easy to do as it is basically the WW2 USN M445 sheepskin design tweaked a little and made in straight leather.

As for the "Raider" name, this was what Lost Worlds called their version......they may still call it that for all I know.

For a short while Averix also produced this jacket, based on the AN-J-4, which was of course a derivative of the M445. This they simply stuck their AN-J4 sheepskin label in.

View attachment 20088

I have one of these (an Averix) from about 1990 or so. I was replacing an old leather Harley Davidson motorcycle jacket when I bought it, and bought a horsehide Averix A2 at the same time. I must have messed the sizing up at the time, as the A2 still fits and I just had the zipper replaced, whereas the G-8 jacket hasn't fit for years. I just happened across it in a closet as I decided to save it for my daughter as it's so little worn, and in running across it I read the tag, took down the nomenclature, and ran a search on it, coming to this thread which is where I should have started in the first place.

I like the jacket and wish it still fit, but I have wondered about it over the years in the context of it being an authentic Navy item. Now I know its not. I'm surprised other manufacturers copied it, and apparently still do.

 

[nick123]

And as Stearman pointed out, there IS a picture here on the Lounge, somewhere, of what looks to be a G-8 1920-40s. I've tried to find it with no luck!

Repeat. The search continues. On my life that photo exists. I know it wasn't a "G-8" but there is a picture out there of a jacket resembling it.

 

[tropicalbob]

After reading the response from that "expert" at the Naval Aviation Museum re the G-8, I notice it is full of erroneous information pertaining to known Navy flight jackets. There never was an official Navy G-8, but it just goes to show that we must sometimes do a lot of digging to get the real answers.

As with everything, especially the daily news.

 

[Pat_H]

As with everything, especially the daily news.

I'm not any kind of expert on flight jackets, although as noted I have an A-2 and I also have a B-3. So, what was it that the expert was incorrect about? I see he noted that there was no pre war "G-8".

 

[Pat_H]

Repeat. The search continues. On my life that photo exists. I know it wasn't a "G-8" but there is a picture out there of a jacket resembling it.

While I'm no sort of expert, period interwar photos I've seen seem to suggest that leather jackets were in vogue in general between the wars, and into the war. For example, we have the photo of Lucian Truscott up wearing a non standard leather jacket, and you can find quite a few photos around of senior WWII U.S. officers wearing A-2s or variants of the B-3. But beyond that, for example, I've seen photos of National Guard cavalry officers in the 1930s wearing what looks very much like the heavy leather motorcycle jackets that have been around forever, and the military in general tolerated a fair amount of departure from standard back in that era. So it wouldn't surprise me if the odd non standards leather jacket saw some use by the odd pilot, here and there.

 

[thor]

Quite afew WWII pilots and airman procured "private purchase" (civilian) leather jackets and wore them in uniform and while flying. Some of these non-military jackets are even profiled in Jon A. MacGuire's famous book "American Flight jackets, airmen and aircraft".
I've heard that the G-8 was possibly first designed by Neil Cooper in the 1970's, though it's possible that a very similar design already existed (but the Navy never had an official G-8 or Type 440 jacket).
Personally I love the G-8 (I own 2; one Lost Worlds and one vintage Willis and Geiger).

 

[nickgp]

To the best of my knowledge the G-8 jacket mimics some of the self styled jackets before any military issued jackets-it has a little bit of everything from different military issued coats-Someone in the know once told me that they were a creation of Burt Avedon while at Willis and Geiger. I think the coats are awesome but the only thing that bothers me is that the half belts do not lock tight-any ideas