Fury

[Stearmen]

As I said in previous posts and other forums:

Sorry as a Vet I just couldn't get past the opening premise. You've a combat tank crew that has somehow managed to survive in inferior American Armor from Kasserine Pass to western Germany and they're going to put their lives in the hands of a clerk typist? Unbelievable I just can't buy the premise. They got away with it in SPR because the guy had a particular skill needed to finish the mission... translator I believe. This kid brings nothing, knows nothing... has nothing.

They're standing in the Repl Depot surrounded by infantry SOMEONE has to be a .30 cal gunner!!!! But no we have to have the tired tale of callow youth turned into "first class fightin' man" through beatings, brutality, sex and murder. This is not Bastogne (The Battle of the Bulge) where EVERYONE became a rifleman. The acting is first rate, Pitt is steady and believable as the battle scarred veteran of the tank wars in Europe. I particularly liked breakfast scene with the two women.

If I didn't know soldiers... if I hadn't been one, I might have enjoyed this film better, but as it is they lost me at the start.

Worf

By the time they got to Germany, their replacement would have been a 30+ year old, that had no business in combat! I know, because that's what the WWII veterans told me. I know one who got five of them in one day, he put them on point, all were dead by the end of the day! He just said, better them than us. Can't say I blame him, the comrades you know verses the new guys.

 

[Blackthorn]

As I said in previous posts and other forums:

Sorry as a Vet I just couldn't get past the opening premise. You've a combat tank crew that has somehow managed to survive in inferior American Armor from Kasserine Pass to western Germany and they're going to put their lives in the hands of a clerk typist? Unbelievable I just can't buy the premise. They got away with it in SPR because the guy had a particular skill needed to finish the mission... translator I believe. This kid brings nothing, knows nothing... has nothing.

They're standing in the Repl Depot surrounded by infantry SOMEONE has to be a .30 cal gunner!!!! But no we have to have the tired tale of callow youth turned into "first class fightin' man" through beatings, brutality, sex and murder. This is not Bastogne (The Battle of the Bulge) where EVERYONE became a rifleman.

Yeah, that would be a problem for me, too, even though I've never been a soldier. It's a bit like "A Few Good Men" where the Tom Cruise character had never tried a case like that before (while the Demi Moore character had) but she says to him "You're the only one who can win this!" Blah. Too much of a stretch of the imagination.

 

[Treetopflyer]

I particularly liked breakfast scene with the two women.

That was the one part of the movie that baffled me. It made almost no sense to me as to why they put that scene in the movie. I get the initial part of that scene, but when the other members of the tank crew came in, I was lost.

 

[Guttersnipe]

That was the one part of the movie that baffled me. It made almost no sense to me as to why they put that scene in the movie. I get the initial part of that scene, but when the other members of the tank crew came in, I was lost.

My two cents: the scene was all about character development and learning about the effects that combat has had on the crew. Norman is a neophyte, in shock after his first taste of combat, longing for the domestic normality of his Mother's kitchen table and teenage romance; Sgt. Collier is going through the motions of a civilized man, try desperately to maintain his dignity, politely placing a napkin in his lap and using great care with his utensils; Swan, Garcia -- and especially Travis -- are men who've become completely detached from normal human behavior and behave like brutes. Another underlying theme of the scene is implied coercion: while neither Norman or Collier realize it, the reality is the German women feel compelled to provide food, hospitality and "comforts" to these armed men...

 

[p51]

I think anyone who's served in the field for a long time got that scene. Men get... detatched from polite society over time in such cases. Anyone who's been in the Army or Marines and spent a lot of time in the field gets it.

 

[Sloan1874]

They're standing in the Repl Depot surrounded by infantry SOMEONE has to be a .30 cal gunner!!!! But no we have to have the tired tale of callow youth turned into "first class fightin' man" through beatings, brutality, sex and murder.

This occurred to me, as well.

 

[p51]

This occurred to me, as well.

They wouldn't have likely turned over a veteran grunt light MG gunner to be an assistant loader on a tank.
Handing over a green replacement is actually far more realistic for this time in the war.

 

[Harp]

Blah. Too much of a stretch of the imagination.

Advocatus diabelli here , not really so much a stretch. I was once told to "put the g.....n cooks out on line
with M60s and tell them they better shoot like they means business if they want to live." And I had to use some Air Force
radio techs as riflemen. War is the supreme test and demands adaptation to circumstance.

 

[hatguy1]

Yeah, that would be a problem for me, too, even though I've never been a soldier. It's a bit like "A Few Good Men" where the Tom Cruise character had never tried a case like that before (while the Demi Moore character had) but she says to him "You're the only one who can win this!" Blah. Too much of a stretch of the imagination.

I haven't yet got to see "Fury." But, along similar lines, it's like that lame, lame, lame Star Trek movie they came out with a few years back trying to reinvent (not revive, reinvent) the original series. We're supposed to believe that Star Fleet Academy Cadet Kirk was so on the outs with the brass for "modifying" the Kobiyashi Moru simulation that he had to be kept out of the galactic emergency yet - after hijacking Star Fleet's latest, greatest starship (you guessed it; the USS Enterprise) he was deemed to have such never seen before leadership talent and on such a scale that he was immediately vaulted over 6 levels of rank (cadet to captain) over serving, proven line officers and made captain of the Enterprise. Oh, brother! Talk about insulting one's intelligence! And that's to say nothing of the idiotic "red slime" threat they faced during the galactic emergency. Oh, no! Not the Dreaded Red Slime. Puh-LEEEZE!

Why does Hollywierd stoop to such idiocy and try to pass it off on the consumer?

 

[The Ringneck]

In WWII there is no way they would have brought an Infantryman over to Armor. Infantry units were suffering 150% casualty rates in the ETO, they needed all the people they could get themselves. So dragging some clerk out of the Reppel Deppel wasn't unrealistic. Remember also there were people as high as MAJOR that weren't in the Army before the war, nor would they be in the Army after the war..... it was an entirely different military than today, one not only staffed but ran almost entirely by men made soldiers only by the war.

Also, the bowgunner on WWII tanks was a pretty lowly position, it required far less skill than driving or the main gun. Not that it was an easy job, but it would be a lot stranger to see him in the driver's seat or firing the main gun.

 

[WarHorse]

As a currently serving tanker, I found the movie very well done. Believe me, I'll be the first one to get turned off by a movie that isn't technically correct to a certain level (ie uniforms, equipment, battle history, tactics, etc). A supreme example of a failure is The Hurt Locker.....couldn't watch it. Is it absolutely unlikely that an unqualified replacement would be placed in a different MOS on the front lines in a combat unit that has experienced significant combat losses? I'm not a history professor, but not that far of a stretch for me to believe. Does the movies convey the severe technical overmatch of US to German tanks (and other systems ie. MGs, 88s, etc) - you bet it does. Does it convey the brutality of combat and the desensitivization that Soldiers in combat experience as a coping mechanism - I'd say yes, again. Is the movie grostequely violent,bloody and brutal - yup, and so is combat.

In the end, while this flick isn't perfect I enjoyed it, and in a certain way, I think it honors the service and bravery of our servicemembers who faced the horrible conditions of the war across Europe. If nothing else, this is a means to keep our history and their service alive.

 

[p51]

In WWII there is no way they would have brought an Infantryman over to Armor.

Sure they would have. By the Fall of 1944, the standards for the draft had been laxed quite a bit, many men who were considered 4F as not fit for service found themselves heading for basic training after all.
I know for sure that men just like that character were moved over from other branches to various combat arms. Over the years I've met vets who'd been in other combat branches and moved to other branches when their divisions had a glue in one type and needed others.
In June I met a vet who'd been a cook for 3 years and found himself as a tanker around the start of 1945 with zero clue what to do in the tank.

 

[The Ringneck]

P51--- I think you missed the point of my post(in reply to Worf's). I fully agree with what you just wrote. Worf wrote that they would not put a non combat GI in a tank when they were in a repple depple full of infantrymen. My point is that infantrymen were at such a premium that they would not be sending anyone out of the infantry into armor. Infantry units were averaging 150% casualty rates in the ETO, and were often short handed as is.

I've never met anyone, in 25 years and 1,000+ vet interviews, who left the infantry for anything other than injuries or who washed out of infantry training (stateside) for physical reasons.

From non combat roles to combat jobs? Of course! The ASTP program sent most of it's men to the Infantry when it folded. I believe there were several mass collections of USAAF personnel into combat arms during the war. I had an uncle washed out of flight school because they came in and took the top ten tallest people in the class---he was sent to the Infantry. A tank destroyer crewmen I worked for as a youth told me most of their replacements at the end of the war in Europe were coming from AA/AAA units. But I respectfully disagree with Worf's claim that an infantryman would go to armor.

 

[Harp]

P51- My point is that infantrymen were at such a premium that they would not be sending anyone out of the infantry into armor.

Infantry can be transferred if necessary; clerks, cooks, and Air Force used if needed.
Special Forces teams can be busted up--it happens....

 

[Atticus Finch]

I've never met anyone, in 25 years and 1,000+ vet interviews, who left the infantry for anything other than injuries or who washed out of infantry training (stateside) for physical reasons.

There was at least one. My father went all the way through Advanced Infantry School and was awaiting assignment when he was given the opportunity to go to OCS and flight school. He grabbed that opportunity and became a fighter pilot.



AF

 

[Monsoon]

The ASTP program sent most of it's men to the Infantry when it folded.

Kurt Vonnegut was in the ASTP program. So was William Wharton, who wrote a great book (which was turned into a great movie) called, "A Midnight Clear".

 

[Worf]

P51--- I think you missed the point of my post(in reply to Worf's). I fully agree with what you just wrote. Worf wrote that they would not put a non combat GI in a tank when they were in a repple depple full of infantrymen. My point is that infantrymen were at such a premium that they would not be sending anyone out of the infantry into armor. Infantry units were averaging 150% casualty rates in the ETO, and were often short handed as is.

I've never met anyone, in 25 years and 1,000+ vet interviews, who left the infantry for anything other than injuries or who washed out of infantry training (stateside) for physical reasons.

From non combat roles to combat jobs? Of course! The ASTP program sent most of it's men to the Infantry when it folded. I believe there were several mass collections of USAAF personnel into combat arms during the war. I had an uncle washed out of flight school because they came in and took the top ten tallest people in the class---he was sent to the Infantry. A tank destroyer crewmen I worked for as a youth told me most of their replacements at the end of the war in Europe were coming from AA/AAA units. But I respectfully disagree with Worf's claim that an infantryman would go to armor.

Well you may be correct, when all's said and done. But a veteran tank crew... going into combat with a clerk typist on the hull gun.... against a desperate better armed enemy? I still don't buy the premise.

Worf

 

[Atticus Finch]

I enjoyed the movie, generally, but I didn't think it was an accurate depiction of warfare, either. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief long enough to accept that a lone, immobile Sherman...out in the wide open...could stand against waves and waves of well-armed German infantry, before finally being destroyed.

It kinda reminded me of an early sixties zombie movie where millions of zombies would flail themselves nightly against some poor mortal's wood-framed house...and end up never getting to eat the mortal.

AF

 

[Harp]

I enjoyed the movie, generally, but I didn't think it was an accurate depiction of warfare, either. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief long enough to accept that a lone, immobile Sherman...out in the wide open...could stand against waves and waves of well-armed German infantry, before finally being destroyed.

AF

...how much ammo did the Germans have? [angel]

 

[Monsoon]

How many Germans did Audie Murphy mow down standing on the back of that M-10? Dude was on the back of it firing a .50 for an hour before running out of ammo.