Fur felt industry vs animal protection issue

[Yohanes]

I've been wondering... does felt industry experience attacks / critics from wildlife fund / animal protection / or other kind of "animal lovers" organizations (I don't know the exact terms or names for this )? Unlike wool, fur felt is made either from rabbit fur or beaver, right? So you have to kill the poor animal first to get their fur... does the industry experience such criticisms, say like, experienced by fur coat makers?

 

[indycop]

I'm betting they are not as high a profile target as coat companies or others.[huh]

 

[Edward]

I imagine it is opposed by the same folks as oppose the fur, leather and meat industries in general, though I've never heard of a fur felt hat wearer being hassled in the street, or having paint thrown at them or any of the more extreme reactions you hear of to fur coats from time to time. (Funnily enough, I ended up having a conversation about fake fur with Richard "Rocky Horror O'Brien at a charity event on Saturday night just past - he was wearing a stunning faux-fur coat that apparently gets abuse shouted at him all the time from folks who think it's real. "Do you know how many acrylics had to die for this??" lol). With hats, I figure a lot of folks simply aren't aware of the animal content, hence the lack of hassle about it. I'm not quite sure where I stand on it myself... I don't like the idea of animals being bred for only their skin - seems wasteful, somehow. In an ideal world, I'd like to see the same cows / horses / rabbits whose sin is harvested for the garment industry also harvested for their meat. I know this is sometimes the case already, but often not.

 

[slimdigby]

Lets honor the critters folks ...

... No later than Thanksgiving - religious or agnostic - lets appreciate the furry wonders that gave their life and hide to our survival through the elements or our contemporary passion for a good hat. I like to think that few garments receive such TLC as a real fur hat these days. Bless you beavers and rabbits !!!
- slimdigby

 

[HungaryTom]

Yohannes,

Since fedoras are less spectacular targets than fur coats plus they became also rare clothing I think it is not a major concern for environmentalists.

It also depends on the species that serves as a raw material. If the hat fur donor is not listed at CITES, the list of rare and endangered animals, than it is not a problem for animal protection.

Since the materials for hats discussed at FL comes mostly from rodent species which can reproduce quickly and have lots of offspring there should be no issues with the threatening of the wildlife. Rodents are decimated in nature anyhow by predators.

Rabbits are bred by countless millions worldwide, Australia has wild rabbits going in astronomical numbers, wild hares are also not rare. Nutria is also kept in farms.

The only rodent species could be the Eurasian beaver that is rare...as far as I know it is never kept on farms, but I may be wrong. Those cute animals were over-hunted in Eurasia since the Middle Ages and disappeared also with the loss of their habitat, big lakes, floods, rivers with forests.
Since it is only a few North American custom hatters list pure beaver hats it seems plausible that they source from North American beavers, maybe some from Russia.
At least Canadian beavers should find enough habitats, their population has recovered since the the late 19th century. And how many real beaver hats are there around? Not so many...

Minks and sables are also kept on farms. This means there are not too many issues with pushing rare species in the wild towards extinction by getting a fur felt fedora.

Habitat loss and pressure from overpopulation is a real danger.

 

[duggap]

I have had thoughts about that issue. I am really into the Art Fawcett hats and, as you know, they are all beaver. It kind of makes me affraid to tell some people what the hat is made of for fear a bottle of ink will get thrown on my new LaSalle. That kind of crime requires capital punishment.

 

[HungaryTom]

I have had thoughts about that issue. I am really into the Art Fawcett hats and, as you know, they are all beaver. It kind of makes me affraid to tell some people what the hat is made of for fear a bottle of ink will get thrown on my new LaSalle. That kind of crime requires capital punishment.

Only if you keep telling everybody that it was pure beaver hat insted of enjoying it silently.

 

[Rooster]

I have had thoughts about that issue. I am really into the Art Fawcett hats and, as you know, they are all beaver. It kind of makes me affraid to tell some people what the hat is made of for fear a bottle of ink will get thrown on my new LaSalle. That kind of crime requires capital punishment.

Beaver has made a tremendous comeback and is quite common in the midwest and especially the Mississippi river basin. In fact, they are quite the pest. They chew down all the trees the cities plant in their parks along the river, and as they migrate up small creaks and streams they find orchards that they delightfully mow down, much to the orchard mans dismay. Back in the late 70's I trapped a monster beaver out of an apple orchard that weighed an incredible 90 lbs.

 

[Tango Yankee]

I think Edward is right in that the activists (such a benign name for people whose acts in some cases should be labeled terrorism!) probably aren't all that aware of fur felt content in hats or other items, or that it's not a high enough profile target.

I came home from leave once (while living in Sawtry, UK) to find part of my fence charred. "Activists" had firebombed my next-door neighbor's two cars because of where one of them worked. They had simultaneously firebombed several more cars in the village, all around midnight. Since such people profess to be against any usage of animals it seems I'm sure that the fur felt industry would be a likely target. Perhaps it isn't because such groups aren't active in areas where the industry is located.

For these types of groups it doesn't matter whether or not the animal is endangered or common, vermin or not. Just the fact that an animal is being killed for the use of their meat/fur is enough.

The problem is extensive enough that there is now a support group called Victims of Animal Rights Extremism (VARE).

Oh, and though the acts would normally be considered acts of terrorism, my neighbor told me that it was classified as vandalism and they wanted it that way... insurance covers acts of vandalism, but not acts of terrorism.

Darned good question, Yohannes!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Edward]

For these types of groups it doesn't matter whether or not the animal is endangered or common, vermin or not. Just the fact that an animal is being killed for the use of their meat/fur is enough.

I have every respect for vegetarians and vegans who oppose the exploitation (in the true, neutral sense of the word) of animal resources. I can understand the clear logic that if it is wrong to eat an animal, then it must be wrong to kill it for its skin also. I don't actually agree with that position, but where I think we can find a common ground is that all animals should be treated humanely. I don't want to gvie up meat or leather, but I don't want the cow to suffer unduly in pain and distress at slaughter either. Nor would I touch veal, foie gras, or such. The real shame is that the extremists who dominate the headlines with their terrorist-type actions only really harm their cause, as so many folks look at them as signifying all those with an interest in animal rights, and therefore writing off the whole concept as "for looneys."
Counterproductive. In my opinion, those of us who will eat or wear an animal have a great responsibility to exploit that resource humanely and without undue waste.

Unfortunately, even with faux fur these days you sometimes have to be careful - there was a big press story a while back with the very soon to be exMrs Mills-McCartney advising folks to be careful of faux fur coming out of china, as much of that was said to be cat or dog.

With regards to rabbit fur, I did once buy as a present for a colleague an ornamental cat which was covered in rabbit fur. The packaging information explained how all the fur used by that company came from Chinese farms where the rabbits were bred sustainably as both a fur and a food source. Seems to me that that's the way we should be going - though of course for those who feel that eating the animal is inherently wrong to begin with, that's not going to be a valid solution.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Very well put, Edward.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Bless you beavers and rabbits !!!
- slimdigby

My sentiments, exactly!

 

[Twitch]

Geez if I hear one more whining wimp sobbing about animals and their non-existant rights I'll run into the streets with guns in both hands blazing! The freakin Nutria is nothing more than a giant rat that counties in Flordia, which has been overrun by this imported rodent, kill nightly. Teams of animal control people cruize the ditches and environs and shoot them with .22s.

One of the main determining factors that made humankind civilized was the planting of crops and the domestication of animals versus wandering hunters attempting to provide for small clans. This farming and raising livestock by humans made it possible for larger urban settlements and all the benefits that provides.

We have been using domesticated animals and animal byproducts for the past 10,000 years of "civilization" and for some 2 million years before. Nothing is going to change that.

If someone eats horse lips somewhere that's fine with me, or Nutria.

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

As for the topic of this thread

Animals were put here for us to aide in our survival. No matter if it be for food or clothing, we should manage these resources in a respectfull manner. This will insure the longevity of both species. I tend to gravitate to what Ted Nuggent says. "I love animals they are delicious!"

 

[Qwkslvr]

Why is wool so inferior to fur felt? I don't have much of a problem buying fur felt, however; I'd think someone could make a superior hat without fur.

 

[Rooster]

I could add a whole bunch here but I won't I think most every body knows where I stand on human rights vs animal rights.
I had a great little post on this thread this morning that contributed information on baby seals but it was deleted as the bartender didn't want to throw gasoline on a fire. ( I don't mind the post being deleted by the way, no big deal)
Animals that are harvested for fur are not wasted. There is the use of their fur after all, isn't that enough?[huh]
Oh hey Twitch, I think you said it all best by the way.lol Buck up folks everything dies eventually, the poor little beasties might as well make me a hat or a pair of shoes on their way out!:eusa_clap

 

[Edward]

Animals that are harvested for fur are not wasted. There is the use of their fur after all, isn't that enough?[huh]

With reference to cows / horses / rabbits etc that can provide perfectly good food, it just seems a shame to use the skin only. I guess what I look to as the ideal is the old Native American (First Nation?) approach of killing only the buffalo needed, then using everything possible - bones for jewellery and arrowheads, wearing the skin, eating the meat.... use everything that can be, waste nothing unnecessarily. Of course I'm aware that recent historical research has indicated that this was often very much not the case in practice, but as an ideal, it still stands up.

FWIW, I'm not one to put animal interests ahead of human interests, but nonetheless I don't believe that our king of the hill status entitles us to mistreat "lower" species. [huh]

Qwkslvr, fair point... I tend to prefer the feel of fur felt over wool, I think it's more durable and seems to hold its shape better in a hat like a fedora or a homburg. That said, I'm not entirely opposed to alternatives. In line with the view I've put above, I'd rather see rabbit fur from rabbits bred for food, or other creatures which are genuinely a pest requiring culling, being used than not and other alternatives being found. That said, I think we all should be open to the idea of alternative materials at least insofar as characterising "better" by reference to particular properties such as feel, workability, durability, etc rather than "this is what they used in the 30s therefore it must be inherently superior." If somebody could produce a fedora with the look and feel of fur felt and yet the lower cost and crushability of the woll hat I have.... well, damn, that would be a belter!

 

[slimdigby]

Respect - also for small lives !

I believe we can begin to distinguish ourselves by treating ALL creatures in our immediate "habitat" with great respect. I trust most here can sufficiently appreciate the rodents that provide fur for the hats we proudly wear and care for. The huge difference we can make, starting today, is supporting organic/free range farming, mindful of the family operated outfits that exist.

And lets remember the great writer Edward Abbey who wrote: "It is every American's right to be eaten by a bear"

 

[fatwoul]

...Back to topic. I am not sure how aware the animal rights organizations are regarding the use of fur felt in hats...

I suspect this is true, but I also suspect that general public awareness is at the centre of it.

Even if animal rights activists are aware of the fur content of felt hats, the public in general are not. The activist needs the public to understand what it is they are doing for their activities to be of any use at all. An activist who throws red paint at a woman in a fur coat does not need to explain their actions to passers-by - whether or not those passers-by agree with the activist is a seperate issue, but there remains a clear explanation for their behaviour. But an activist doing the same thing to a man in a hat might seem to passers-by as nothing more than a meaningless assault.

My mother is a bit animal rightsy, and she was horrified when, after admiring my hats, I told her what they were made from. However, she was even more horrified when I pointed out that she also had worn hats made from the same thing.

This leads me to another explanation for the disparity between fur coats and hats; because so few people are aware of the fur content in felt, they may have worn felt hats themselves without knowing it cost animal lives. A member of the public may be far more reluctant to condemn a hat-wearer, without questioning whether they have ever unwittingly worn a felt hat themselves.

 

[carouselvic]

fur felt

I have some info on felt and such that I want to share here so I contacted the publisher to get permission to print it here. When and if I get the ok I will pass this article along.