Frightening Trend - Article.

[McPeppers]

The slowly emerging fashion trend that makes my eyebrow raise the most is people wearing Pajama bottoms as pants....

 

[Senator Jack]

Welcome to the Lounge, JMadsenk. I see we're off to a running start.

Perhaps you didn't read the first part of my post about the woman left stranded by her hipster husband. I believe my comments that followed were right in line with the article, for unless I'm mistaken, it was about 40 year olds who are refusing to grow up. The woman whom I met deserved better than an overgrown teenager. She thought she had married a man, but even she confessed that it wasn't the case. When I see two hipsters in love, I think, good for them. They won't have anyone but each other to let down.

As far as personal issues - yes, hipsterism does affect me. I moved up here to this blue-collar section of Queens to get away from the hipsters that had invaded the Lower East Side. Now after all these years, they've followed me. Sorry, I don't think it proper for one to wear a t-shirt that reads 'You say tomato, and I say #$%@ you,' in a family-oriented neighborhood, even if the wearer is a hipster. This is the sort of garbage I've seen about me in the last few years.

The character of the neighborhood also undergoes dramatic change when the hipsters move in. The Poles of Williamsburgh have complained about that enough, and even here in my neighborhood the quaint Greek coffee shops are being replaced by Starbucks. I know in a few years I won't be able to recognize the place and I'll have to move again. I know - too bad for me, ey? Progress and all that.

By the way, as Scotrace has accutely noted, one should sort of get the feel of a forum before posting. Do try to behave.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[airfrogusmc]

When Jobs and Wozniak started coming to work dressed like the gardener in the 1970's is when all this started. "oh look, he's worth a billion and dresses like Oscar Madison, why can't I?" Then the other CEO's all started dressing like slobs. A couple weeks ago, the Los Angeles Times in one of it's fawning articles over recalled Governor Gray Davis noted that now he dresses casual to work at one of the largest law firms in Los Angeles. They talk about Delaware and North Dakota as "the race to the bottom" in business regulations; well with Silicon Valley it's the race to the bottom of self respect. I think the only guy down there who dresses worth a darn is Larry Ellison of Oracle.

Its plain to see you haven't worked allot with creatives....

 

[Paisley]

I didn't slog through the whole 8-page article, but it seems the beef the author has is with the choice of clothing and music and the desire for free time.

Parts of the article didn't make sense. For example, how do you afford an $800stroller if you're snowboarding during the middle of the week? Or is the article really about trust fund babies, or people who never grew up because their parents still give them an allowance?

Nevertheless, I saw part of myself in this article. I don't kill myself working; I'd rather earn less and live more modestly, but have some free time and independence. And I've never had any desire to have kids. I wear jeans when it's time for casual clothes (just as my father has his whole life). Whom am I hurting?

None of that makes me irresponsible. I don't get financial gifts from my family. I've never been on unemployment or any other government aid. I pay my bills on time, keep my house and yard looking nice, and help my neighbors when they ask. I'm a valued employee at my job.

As for 40-year-olds going to venues where there are younger people, where is the harm? I go to a dance club where there are people of all ages, from about teens to septugenarians. I think people tend to behave better when they are in a diverse group.

I don't care for the aesthetic of adults dressing like teens, but aside from that, what I read of the article just didn't ring true to me.

 

[Lincsong]

Its plain to see you haven't worked allot with creatives....

So creativity equals grunge? There's no excuse for dressing like a slob; creativity or not.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I just think that more relaxed dress lends itself to creative thought thats all. It seems to work very well for some companies. I work in a creative field and wear jeans almost everyday. I will say I dress to the occasion so to speak. If it requires a tux I wear a tux a suit a siut but thankfully most of the time its jeans and Chucky Ts....

 

[jamespowers]

I just think that more relaxed dress lends itself to creative thought thats all. It seems to work very well for some companies. I work in a creative field and wear jeans almost everyday. I will say I dress to the occasion so to speak. If it requires a tux I wear a tux a suit a siut but thankfully most of the time its jeans and Chucky Ts....

So slacks and a dress shirt cut off circulation to creativity?! Hmmmmm...... :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

[Feraud]

I just think that more relaxed dress lends itself to creative thought thats all.

I see your point and wonder if a study has ever been done to check this. The results would be very interesting.


Now for my .02 cents on dressing and creativity. Creativity is something that comes from within not without. While I agree creativity flowing from within may manifest itself on the exterior, the majority of "creative looking" people are just that. They look like artists but are not!
The grunge, artist, skatepunk, gangsta look is soooooo played out! You cannot "keep it real" when 150 bucks spent in Target or The Gap gives you Sid Vicious! I mentioned in another thread, "what ever happened to earning those Ramones looking jeans?" Every mall and Main Street USA has their hip clothing stores. Whether it be ripped bleached jeans or baggy Carhartt work pants, the effect is the same. Poser. It is not Punk, street, etc..
It is sweet, sweet, conformitiy at its best.

 

[airfrogusmc]

OK, lets say you own a company and you have very relaxes dress codes. Usually folks that are very rigid about dress are very rigid in other areas to. If you're truly creative and at the top of your field you would gravitate toward an environment the would allow you to be yourself not a rigid environment that would restrict not only the way you dress but also what you create. Thats why the best in the creative fields are usually employed at places that not only allows those kind of freedoms but encourage it.

A quote by one of my true heros....
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit."

And a photo of the man...

 

[MrBern]

So creativity equals grunge? There's no excuse for dressing like a slob; creativity or not.

Actually, y'know, wearing a suit to the office puts you in a regimented workforce. Creatives often must think outside the box. And their garb reflects that.
You dont see photographers dressed like WeeGee anymore.
Graphic artists traditionally are working w/ inks & paints. Theyre casual dress has persisted even is desktop publishing has made their work less messy.
Even some of the fashion designers are alarmingly dressed down when not on tv.

 

[Elaina]

I read the article and I'm also about to earn my fashion design degree, I'm also a prime example of the Gen Xer age.

I learned to sew because all I could afford was material or Goodwill. I chose to dress with some modesty (back in the era of grunge and hippy chick tramp), and while I was fairly goth in style, I HAD style.

That said, I'm one of the "creative types". I desgin clothing on a daily basis, I sew, I work with the public...and I dress like I'm a professional. I may not always dress vintage, many of my outfits are either one piece vintage, the rest modern, but I do dress with decorum and I try to have some class about myself. I'm also the only one in my class that's worn something to school other then jeans and flip flops, and I take a lot of guff for dressing the way I do. Even when it's just a skirt, blouse and low heeled shoes.

In my humble opinion, being creative and dressing as horrid as one did in their youth is an excuse. I do not believe that it is because they're scared to grow up, rather that being an adult is WORK. And as a Gen Xer, I was taught that was the worst kind of four letter word.

Elaina

 

[Lincsong]

Ford, GM, IBM, all the big companies had rigid dress codes for decades. When the casual nonsense came in the companies fortunes fell. It is possible to think outside the box without having to look like the parts counterman at AutoZone. Enterprise Rent A Car, Avis and Hertz all adhere to strict dress codes and all three are at the top of their industry. Oracle's Larry Ellison doesn't dress like Jobs, Wozniak et. al and he's at the top of his game. A sales manager I worked for told me; when you dress down you not only insult yourself you insult the company you work for, the product you sell and the customer you serve.

I don't recall John D. Rockefeller, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Cornelius Vanderbilt, William Crapo Durant or others come to work in dungarees and chewing on a blade of grass.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Creativity and mode of dress?

I think the way a person chooses to dress does not have much bearing on how creative they really are. Except maybe those that just blindly follow the hideous and oh-so tiresome current trend of giant sized T-shirts paired with enormous trousers. Doesn't really take much thought or originality to do that.
Anyway, I consider myself to be a highly creative person, and I am a stickler for dressing decently, even properly, if the occasion allows it. So was the surrealist painter, Rene Magritte, who always wore a suit while painting.
But in my current line of work, it is just imprudent and impractical to dress in anything but the most casual,(to me) work clothes. Just old jeans and a work shirt that I don't care if they get burn holes or oil stains or whatever.
However, if I had a more "white collar" type of position, I know I would still retain my inate creativity.
I don't think that dressing in any particular mode either fosters or stifles creativity, it's all within the individual.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Tell that to Apple Computers, Ben and Jerrys, Pixar, I could go on and on...

And those dress codes that you mentioned are necessary for the regimented environments of those companies. With the exception of two are not at the top of their game. Whats more important than what you look like doing your job(all show and no go) is how you do your job. Is you work at a job that its necessary to wear a suit then so be it but those are usually not the most creative environments because of the very nature of the beast.

Do you know whos quote and photo I posted?

 

[Lincsong]

Tell that to Apple Computers, Ben and Jerrys, Pixar, I could go on and on...

And those dress codes that you mentioned are necessary for the regimented environments of those companies. With the exception of two are not at the top of their game. Whats more important than what you look like doing your job(all show and no go) is how you do your job. Is you work at a job that its necessary to wear a suit then so be it but those are usually not the most creative environments because of the very nature of the beast.

Do you know whos quote and photo I posted?

This creativity discussion got started because I brought up Jobs and Wozniak:eusa_doh: their insistance on dressing like day laborers has no bearing on their ability to be creative. If they dressed in suits like David Packard (who like bolo ties) and Bill Hewlett they still would have been successful because it is their competitive nature.
Regimentalism is needed for success. No sucessful company became that way by letting its employees float in the wind; deadlines and goals had to have been made. It's this attitude that; "oh well, he's billionaire and dresses like Mel the Feed Store clerk" that causes the coarseness in dress. And Ben and Jerry's is falling by the wayside because of the nutty attitude they have.lol Jobs and Wozniak didn't build up Apple Computer by not having a vision and goals.
Peoplesoft had that "que sera sera" attitude. It's founder had "bring your pet to work day", (HJ and Mr. Bern some even brought a pet monkeylol ), he dressed down, made a big fuss about no putting on airs, (while living in a beautiful mansion away from others) and what happened to them? They got gobbled up by the fashionably dressed Larry Ellison of Oracle. Oracle also gobbled up Siebel another dress down company.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Do you know whos quote and photo I posted?

Ansel Adams.

(What did I win?) lol

 

[airfrogusmc]

I think the point that you are missing is that these companies because of relaxed dress codes and very creative environments attract the most creative people. Thats why they have been so successful. They are attracting the free thinkers that are coming up with the new ideas. Allot of companies like IBM have noticed this and loosened things up in their creative areas. Whatever you believe helps you in your creativity whether its wearing a suit or wearing jeans it shouldn't matter. What matters is the work. But I will tell you most of the really creative people I know stay as far away from companies with dress codes as they can get. If you are really good there are plenty of alternatives...

 

[airfrogusmc]

Ansel Adams.

(What did I win?) lol

a kewpie doll:eusa_clap

 

[Lincsong]

Let the creative start their own company. IBM is losing share because they are letting all the waifs and street urchins float in. Ben and Jerry's is withering on the vine because of the Jerry Garcia look. Disney is in the dumps because they too are taking on the grunge look. Pixar is sucessful because Jobs is talented and has the vision and goals. Without Jobs Pixar was just a bunch of slobs sitting around. It was Jobs who made Pixar what it is.

The grunge look only applies to the person giving the orders. The rest of crew, if left to float in the wind will do just that; slack off, come and go as they please and not give a darn about any results; Oh results are regimental.:eusa_doh:

 

[airfrogusmc]

Another photo of the man that wasn't a fancy dresser or usually very well groomed.

He put all of his energy into making photographs.