Freewheelers Horsehide Tear - Repair Recommendations

[Blackadder]

HD Sportster 8
Field Leathers 9
Eastman 8-9
Y2 7
Thedi hh 7
Thedi buffalo 8
Aero 5-6

I also got 8 spi (bottom seam) for my RM Buco J-100 and HD Sportster.
There are also 8 on the back shoulder seam of my Rich Sher but 13 along the sleeves.

 

[Will Zach]

Could be anything, Dena will know. My bet is on a bad batch and skiving. If OP happens to have a thickness gauge, a thickness measurement could be useful. In my prior attempts (risky, do not attempt) to stretch leather jackets in the shoulders area I'd put on a thick sweatshirt and then a soaking wet jacket that I could barely zip up over a t-shirt, let alone over a thick sweatshirt. Being wet and stretchable I could now zip up the jacket. It was tight as hell. I then moved my shoulders forward and brought arms together and bent torso forward. I cannot begin to describe the stress the leather and the seams endured. But nothing broke. The jacket stretched. I am just trying to illustrate the point that a properly constructed jacket can survive tremendous stresses, even in its weakened, wet state, tortured by idiots like me, lol.

 

[hesalitedome]

Sorry about the tear and hope the repair goes well.

Please forgive my ignorance, but who is Dena?

 

[JMax]

^^ https://www.greatleather.com/

Dena is great. She has worked on a few of my jackets.

JL also is spectacular. They too have worked on a couple of my jackets.

 

[hesalitedome]

^ Thanks. JL is Johnson Leather in SF?

 

[Colin G]

^^ https://www.greatleather.com/

Dena is great. She has worked on a few of my jackets.

JL also is spectacular. They too have worked on a couple of my jackets.

Dena could not fix my Freewheelers Switchyard or rather shorten the sleeves and inch. She said it was too well built (her words not mine) and she had a hard time tearing the seam apart so she sewed up what she took apart and sent it back to me. Maybe the storm cuffs made things difficult. She was very upfront about everything so no issues there and she was friendly.

I think I'll try Johnson Leathers and see if they are up to the task.

 

[JMax]

Dena could not fix my Freewheelers Switchyard or rather shorten the sleeves and inch. She said it was too well built (her words not mine) and she had a hard time tearing the seam apart so she sewed up what she took apart and sent it back to me. Maybe the storm cuffs made things difficult. She was very upfront about everything so no issues there and she was friendly.

I think I'll try Johnson Leathers and see if they are up to the task.

She mentioned something similar about my LW jackets. Said it was tough going bc of the seams and thick leather. But I only requested zipper replacements. She did a fantastic job but did say they were not easy jackets to work on.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Dena could not fix my Freewheelers Switchyard or rather shorten the sleeves and inch. She said it was too well built (her words not mine) and she had a hard time tearing the seam apart so she sewed up what she took apart and sent it back to me. Maybe the storm cuffs made things difficult. She was very upfront about everything so no issues there and she was friendly.

I think I'll try Johnson Leathers and see if they are up to the task.

Interesting. I'm not sure if the storm cuffs had anything to do with it, but @Maverickson was able to shorten the sleeves on both my Caboose and my Sunset. The sleeves came back bulkier as I don't believe he skived them, but I was expecting that. This is not a shot at Dena at all, btw. I am just curious to figure out the different responses from two different repairs.

 

[Fonzie]

@DorKlonn your jacket's label does put it as at least relatively on the older side. My label is much different than yours. My jacket is a 2015-2017 jacket. I forget which exactly, but the label is different. That puts yours at 5 years old minimum, but likely much older than that.

However, that still does not make it acceptable. I'm just trying to add some more information. I would at least try reaching out to Freewheelers to see what they say. Good chance they won't reply unfortunately, but should be worth a shot.

I might be wrong but the rebranding from Bootleggers to Freewheelers happened in 2009. So the jacket is at least that old.

That of course only tells so much as wear frequency and possibly the kind of wear the jacket is subject to is much more important. And unless it’s been worn on a building site for 10 years (which of course it hasn’t) that shouldn’t have happened.

Yeah now knowing about how old this jacket truly is, makes me wonder if it has gone through its fair share of abuse, I did condition it when i first got it (as a precaution since i didn't know its history), but perhaps the damage was already done

The fact is that the jacket is “only” a decade or so old.
I think that is pretty sad, having in mind that all these modern Japanese and other “top tier” manufacturers are reproducing models that can still be found in extremely good conditions 80 years later or more, with no postcard type tears in the leather after decades of use.
Perhaps nowadays there’s too much emphasis in form over function in the high end repro world, which is probably the opposite to what these jacket models where intended too.

 

[Marc mndt]

I think that is pretty sad, having in mind that all these modern Japanese and other “top tier” manufacturers are reproducing models that can still be found in extremely good conditions 80 years later or more, with no postcard type tears in the leather after decades of use.

Maybe that's because only the good ones survived. Maybe half of all Peter's suffered from postcard type tears We don't know because those were discarded 80 years ago. Long before they were considered collectibles. They were considered worn out, old and worthless.

 

[Carlos840]

The fact is that the jacket is “only” a decade or so old.
I think that is pretty sad, having in mind that all these modern Japanese and other “top tier” manufacturers are reproducing models that can still be found in extremely good conditions 80 years later or more, with no postcard type tears in the leather after decades of use.
Perhaps nowadays there’s too much emphasis in form over function in the high end repro world, which is probably the opposite to what these jacket models where intended too.

I don't think you are being fair, that's like calling all german cars bad because one person blows up an engine.
One freak failure doesn't give you enough information to decide that "there’s too much emphasis in form over function in the high end repro world".
The failure is IMO not age related, it's just something that really rarely happens but still does happen sometimes.
In 7 years of daily leather nerding i have seen it reported three times, once on a Himel, once on a Fine creek and once on a Freewheelers.

As @Marc mndt said you don't know how often this happened in the past, just like we don't know why people are throwing theit cheap H&M or Top Shop leather jackets, no one cares about these...

 

[dudewuttheheck]

The fact is that the jacket is “only” a decade or so old.
I think that is pretty sad, having in mind that all these modern Japanese and other “top tier” manufacturers are reproducing models that can still be found in extremely good conditions 80 years later or more, with no postcard type tears in the leather after decades of use.
Perhaps nowadays there’s too much emphasis in form over function in the high end repro world, which is probably the opposite to what these jacket models where intended too.

You're acting like this happens all the time. This is the first time I have seen this happen to a Freewheelers jacket. I don't even like Fine Creek, but I didn't jump all over them when we saw an issue with one of their jackets and that one was pretty new.

The age is not the only thing that matters. We have no idea what happened with the previous owner.

We also do not know how worn most vintage jackets actually are either. You can't just say all vintage jackets were worn for decades.

 

[Fonzie]

Maybe that's because only the good ones survived. Maybe half of all Peter's suffered from postcard type tears We don't know because those were discarded 80 years ago. Long before they were considered collectibles. They were considered worn out, old and worthless.

I don't think you are being fair, that's like calling all german cars bad because one person blows up an engine.
One freak failure doesn't give you enough information to decide that "there’s too much emphasis in form over function in the high end repro world".
The failure is IMO not age related, it's just something that really rarely happens but still does happen sometimes.
In 7 years of daily leather nerding i have seen it reported three times, once on a Himel, once on a Fine creek and once on a Freewheelers.

As @Marc mndt said you don't know how often this happened in the past, just like we don't know why people are throwing theit cheap H&M or Top Shop leather jackets, no one cares about these...

You're acting like this happens all the time. This is the first time I have seen this happen to a Freewheelers jacket. I don't even like Fine Creek, but I didn't jump all over them when we saw an issue with one of their jackets and that one was pretty new.

The age is not the only thing that matters. We have no idea what happened with the previous owner.

We also do not know how worn most vintage jackets actually are either. You can't just say all vintage jackets were worn for decades.

Yeah... Nah.
You’re all wrong. I’m right.

 

[TheBigEraser]

I would suggest to contact Freewheelers directly. Two weeks ago my friend lost a button on his denim jacket and he wrote directly to freewheelers to request a new button. The first reaction in FW's email is... "surely it's broken. Thanks for wearing it a lot! Patina great, looks beautiful!"

And then they asked if my friend can fix himself. If yes, they will mail a button, if not, just ship the jacket to FW and they will fix.

I think it's never wrong to bring the question to the maker themselves.

 

[Marc mndt]

And then they asked if my friend can fix himself. If yes, they will mail a button

Imagine Freewheelers mailing a needle and thread so the OP can fix the ripped seam himself

 

[navetsea]

I only do logic here... when our skin shows characters it means our skin is aging, if our skin is stuffed with oil and protected from elements that keeps it look glossy supple and smooth for years that means our skin will stay younger and supple longer,

but with some leather product unlike what we do to our skin, we desire the compromise, people want the leather jacket to get allowed to get drier and show wrinkles, so in a way we allow them to age compared to let say old LW look , probably that leather won't even show sign of wearing the first decade of wearing it and naturally would last longer everything else being equal.

drier crispier leather will show character faster, has more defined looking creases but that also means they will age faster when being used to be repeatedly folded and straightened over and over like being worn as jacket. imagine
a piece of cardboard crush it in your hand flat it out crush it again several time, it will show lots creases but it will break at the points where these creases crisscrossing each other over and over. unless somehow you condition it to make it suppler.

 

[DorKlonn]

Whoah, I didnt expect this thread to turn kind of hostile, but honestly I think it was just a perfect storm of issues and definitely does not speak to the quality of freewheelers at all, I wanted to start this thread as a documentation of an experience and ways of solving it, rather than make a commentary that Freewheelers and repro makers are bad?

I agree with what @Carlos840 @Marc mndt and @dudewuttheheck said, older jackets have a certain survivorship bias to them, and honestly this was just an unfortunate freak accident; doesnt matter if it was 1 or 10 or 80 years old, that panel was a counting down to its inevitable failure.

 

[JMax]

My greatest fear every time a truly vintage jacket is delivered to my doorstep, aside from a funky odor, is that the seams or stitching will come apart once I start wearing the jacket.

 

[yellowfever]

Just measured a few of mine:

Freewheelers LaBrea: 10-12
Lost worlds: 8-9
Vansons: 6-8
Aero: 6
Himel: 9-11
Schott: 6-7
Langlitz: 6
RMC: 8
Eastman 8-9

I agree that the sweet spot at least visually is somewhere around 7-9, more than that looks neat but fragile...
The only two jackets i have seen tear that way where a Freewheelers and a Himel and they are top of my list in spi.
Coincidence?

Interesting. High stitch counts are indeed not an unalloyed good thing (however visually pleasing some may find them/however impressive the skill to stitch them)... especially if you plan on wearing your motorbike jacket whilst riding an actual motorbike (which, of course, I realise many do not).

But for real motorbike leathers designed to protect you (as opposed to fashion items designed only to look good) stitch counts, type of thread used, thread thickness, stitch types (double, triple, hidden etc) type of seams, seam placement and overall jacket construction are all things that need careful thought. A protective jacket is not just about the thickness/quality of the leather, seam failure is probably the bigger risk in a crash. Some good points are made on Byson leathers website (a respected UK motorbike leather repair and alteration place - Gwen who does the stitching was a machinist at Hideout leather, a high end bespoke UK motorbike leather makers who supply police riders amongst others)

http://www.bysonleather.co.uk/BYSON LEATHER AboutLeathers.htm#<b>Stitching and construction</b>

On stitches/inch they suggest 8-10, with with lower end of that best (the 12 per inch and a half talked about = 8/inch).

In the EU there is now a CE standard for leather jacket construction, if it is to be legally sold as protective equipment for motorcyclists. To meet the standard, amongst other things, manufacturers have to have the seam strength tested at independent laboratories and reach a minimum standard. In fact this CE standard started out as a British standard (known as the Cambridge standard) developed by Dr Roderick Woods of Cambridge University working with bespoke motorbike leather makers in the UK. BKS leathers produced the world’s first ever CE certified leathers in 1994 when the standard was first introduced (they’d already been meeting the tougher Cambridge standard) two other top name UK bespoke makers (Crowtree Leathers and Hideout Leathers) following very soon afterwards. Most other companies - including rather shockingly most big name bike leather manufacturers - continued to skirt the rules and not meet the standard until 2018 when it was revised to be easier/cheaper to meet and enforcement of it was tightened.

A couple of years ago I actually managed to find a second hand two piece set of 1994 BKS leathers that fit me (they’re all bespoke so not cheap new! BKS are like the Langlitz of the UK only more technical). Really wonderful kit, but at 3kg with armour fitted and designed and constructed to work on the bike rather than down the pub, they are not likely to get the fashion crowd excited... but if I fall off my bike I’ll be glad to be wearing them (or my Vanson sportsrider leathers, which protected me in a 100mph crash on a track day some years back).

So I’m a form follows function kind of guy, at least for anything I wear on the bike. But each to their own ethos, of course. If you don’t ride in it (or even if you do - it’s your hide after all ) and you love the beautiful artistry of high and tight stitch counts on your jackets, then enjoy it, accepting a marginally higher risk of seams failing (more than marginal in a bike crash).

It’s similar to the debate on number 5 zippers on heavy jackets. Some like the authenticity and the look and they prize that over the greater robustness of a chunky number 10 zipper. Others hate having to baby a number 5 zip and worry about it failing and the cost and hassle of repairs if it does, so they’d rather have that perhaps less elegant but more robust chunky number 10 zipper. So long as people fully understand and are happy with the choice they personally made that’s all that matters.

Anyway I see I’ve rambled on and turned this into a rather uncalled for lecture on protective motorbike equipment! Apologies for the lengthy digression/health and safety madness, I blame too much Covid induced cabin fever!

This incident is clearly mostly just down to random bad luck, given how rarely these things happen even in fashion jackets with high stitch counts and exotic leather. It’s galling of course, but at least it didn’t happen whilst sliding down the road after a motorbike crash so no ones hide got torn as a result, just a (hopefully reparable) jacket. But maybe a useful reminder to riders that fashion leathers might look cool, but you’ll wish you’d worn a real motorbike jacket if you crash.

i wish the poster well on getting this lovely jacket fixed, I’m sure a professional repair shop can advise what is possible and work some magic.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I would suggest to contact Freewheelers directly. Two weeks ago my friend lost a button on his denim jacket and he wrote directly to freewheelers to request a new button. The first reaction in FW's email is... "surely it's broken. Thanks for wearing it a lot! Patina great, looks beautiful!"

And then they asked if my friend can fix himself. If yes, they will mail a button, if not, just ship the jacket to FW and they will fix.

I think it's never wrong to bring the question to the maker themselves.

From what I understand, if you have proof of purchase, Freewheelers would actually replace a jacket with the issue this jacket has. Unfortunately, it was bought used so that would make it more difficult. Still, can't hurt to email them and see what they say.

@DorKlonn Don't worry. We know that this was not your intention. Welcome to TFL where almost anything can be a controversy and threads get hijacked more than cars do in South Africa

But seriously you'll love it here. It's a testament to the forum that we care so much about things like this. I agree with you that it's a freak accident. Things happen and I am mostly interested to see how this gets resolved. I'd love to see it fixed in some new fit pics eventually.