Four major details

[Senator Jack]

Yes, that's the seam I go by. I learned to take measurements by trial and error and not by tailoring. For instance, when I buy a vintage suit or jacket online, I have the seller measure the side seam from armpit to hem, just so I know how high that armhole is going to be. When I've been measured for a suit, I've asked tailors to take this measurement, but they thought me mad. It appears to me it would be a very important measurement (as with shirts) so there would be no guesswork.

Let's forget about tailors for a moment anyway, because if you read the GQ article, you'll see they're talking about walking into a place like Barney's where you may see a tailor after you agree to buy the suit. The article is right in that regards - the salesman will tell you anything - and I'm sure that's happened to all of us. Secondly, how many good tailors are really out there? Especially in a place like Barney's? They're there to take up cuffs and let out trousers and that's about it. They get paid whether you look good or not.

My limited knowledge was acquired only after years of buying vintage, and I'm still learning. In fact, Hem Jones just posted a picture of me in the Event forum and I can see I have to take up the sleeves on a recent acquisition. Indeed, I had thought the jacket a bit too long when I bought it (my wallet opens far too easily for a great suit) but after seeing the picture I think the length is fine. This is something else I have to do, take more pictures of myself in various rigouts.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

2. Extra beltloop right next to the fly. This belt loop which may look out of place to the modern observer is very useful in keeping the buckle of the belt in place right above the fly.

Some trousers have (had?) a smaller loop for the buckle's pin. This keeps the buckle in place not only vertically, but also horizontally.

Anyone know about when those came into use?

 

[Tomasso]

Anyone know about when those came into use?

I first began noticing the belt prong loop in the 1980's, during the Italian sartorial invasion of America. I'm sure our vintage aficionados will have some info.

 

[JamesT1]

I believe Brooks Brothers has some suits (the golden fleece) that have the loop to keep the belt buckle in place; when they started this, I have no idea.

Personally I prefer buttons sewn in for braces, as it seems to give a cleaner look.

Another item that is rarely seen anymore: reverse single pleats. Actually, since this was based on a GQ article, pleats in general. It seems to me that GQ has made it their mission to denounce pleats.

James

 

[Senator Jack]

Of course they made it their mission to denounce pleats -just as the industry made it its mission to denounce flat front pants in the 80s. Trying to find new flat-fronts in the 80s was impossible. Now that's all we're seeing.

GQ and Esquire survive by relying on the short-term memory of the public.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[BegintheBeguine]

:rage: And when those zippers break, it is heck trying to insert a replacement. The fly area is so short there's no room to work.

 

[JamesT1]

That is why I prefer wearing and working with button fly trousers.

James

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Somehow i'd never come across this thread before. Clarification required.

What are we talking about as "modern tailors"? My tailor in Scotland incorporates high armholes. Every tailor-made suit i've seen has had the armholes requested by the customer. (Generally high because that's what tailors do - they understand.) The high armhole thing i've always thought was a problem of modern off the rack and MTM type suitmakers. Bespoke has always been high, unless requested otherwise.

I don't wear belts, so i don't notice the vagaries of belt loop positioning etc. But i recall that at least some of my vintage off the rack trousers do not bear the extra belt loop.

If the trousers are high waisted, i would be stunned if a bespoke tailor did not put in a long zip.

I just hope that members are not dissuaded from going down the bespoke route as a result of this thread, because i don't think we're talking about bespoke tailors.

bk

 

[JamesT1]

I assumed it was generally understood that bespoke tailors do such things as high arm holes and such. I think the comments were based more on alteration tailors and mtm suits.

James

 

[Baron Kurtz]

our assumptions agree ...

welcome to el FLounge, by the way.

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Bespoke tailors in the UK differ from their colleagues across the pond. Here in the U.S.A., most custom tailors seem to have a penchant for lower armholes. Only a few aging, diehard Italian tailors (and some younger "retro rebels" who've served as apprentices) still do higher armholes and waists.

.

 

[JamesT1]

our assumptions agree ...

welcome to el FLounge, by the way.

bk

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.

James

 

[Matt Deckard]

That is why I prefer wearing and working with button fly trousers.

James

The button fly is double edged. Takes a long time to button the fly when guys are behind you watching thinking... what is he doing...

I prefer the zipper, though the vintage ones tend to freeze up. Not good when you are at a restaurant with a lady and can't leave the restroom until you get a pair of pliars brought to you. Trust me it's happened.

 

[Mr. 'H']

LOL lol

This "freezing" kinda happens to me with the pair of '40s cream pants I bought in Pasadena. I wear them a lot when going out to restaurants etc....

 

[matei]

Some trousers have (had?) a smaller loop for the buckle's pin. This keeps the buckle in place not only vertically, but also horizontally.

All my suit trousers have these little loops; however they aren't so long that I can really use them. In theory they would be nice, but methinks me belts are too big - too "manly".

 

[scotrace]

My grandfather used to occasionally rub a small block of paraffin wax over the teeth of zippers to keep them free. I do this now and then today.

The button fly is double edged. Takes a long time to button the fly when guys are behind you watching thinking... what is he doing...

I prefer the zipper, though the vintage ones tend to freeze up. Not good when you are at a restaurant with a lady and can't leave the restroom until you get a pair of pliars brought to you. Trust me it's happened.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Wax ay... I'll have to try that.

 

[Boodles]

I have even used candle wax on zippers

Out in the sticks (Vietnam) I have pressed the side of a candle into service to free up a sticky zipper. Perhaps the paraffin is the better choice when you have the luxury but for me the candle is more likely to be close at hand than is a block of paraffin.

My grandfather used to occasionally rub a small block of paraffin wax over the teeth of zippers to keep them free. I do this now and then today.

 

[Geesie]

Of course they made it their mission to denounce pleats -just as the industry made it its mission to denounce flat front pants in the 80s. Trying to find new flat-fronts in the 80s was impossible. Now that's all we're seeing.

GQ and Esquire survive by relying on the short-term memory of the public.

Regards,

Senator Jack

Though I should mention in GQ's favor that their style columnist is generally very good. He's flat-out contradicted a lot of the "what's hot this week" stuff that the rest of the rag puts forth. For example, he likes pleats and thinks that dinner jackets should only come in black, midnight, and ivory.

 

[Tomasso]

Some trousers have (had?) a smaller loop for the buckle's pin. This keeps the buckle in place not only vertically, but also horizontally.

For visual reference: