Formal Wear Primer

[Mr. Rover]

Yeah- I noticed my sleeve length. See that bunching up near the shoulders? I think that is due to my shirt sleeve garter shifting and pulling up too much material and pulled my cuffs higher than I would usually wear them. These shirts have long-ish sleeves so I wear sleeve garters (the tailor felt that he should give me extra material in the arms because I'm growing BAH!!!!!).

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

I seem to remember people wearing a black tie and black vest with a tailcoat. Is that considered black tie even with the tailcoat? I am very, very fond of that type of coat. There are also other styles these days for evening wear. I have seen a frock-coat and something called a Neru jacket.

Black Tie Event with Tailcoat?

Frock

Neru

Would these be appropriate for any type of evening wear?

 

[shindeco]

Wearing a black waistcoat and bowtie with a tailcoat was quite popular in the last part of the 19th century. By the 20s it was considered very old fashioned and had been relegated to a servant's uniform. (A butler's evening uniform consists of black tailcoat, black waistcoat and black bowtie). To wear such an outfit in the 30s and 40s would arouse much comment to be sure!

A frock coat is an older alternative to the cutaway or morning coat. It should be worn before 6:00pm to very formal events. Same accessories as a morning coat.

A neru jacket was an alternative to a business suit.

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

On more question: here in the early part of the 21st century would a tailcoat with black tie be appropriate or too formal? Just for edicit's sake because it probably wouldn't matter to most people.

 

[shindeco]

For what sort of function? It's an ensemble you only generally see at weddings nowadays; usually worn by grooms whose brides choose their clothing. I can only give my personal opinion but I would say avoid it. To me it tends to scream "badly advised rental!!"

If you're going to wear a tailcoat, I would strongly advise sticking with the standard "white tie" accessories unless you're a 19th century re-enactor.

A tailcoat is the ultimate in formality. It is certainly acceptable to wear one to any event which is "black tie". Either black or white tie should only be worn in the evening. Winter is traditionally a more formal season than summer. In town is more formal than in the country. For most people today, as you say, any of this seems very arcane and too quaint for words.

Use your best judgement. Wear what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Just for edicit's sake ...

And what, pray tell, is an "edicit"? [huh]

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

It is certainly acceptable to wear [white tie and tails] to any event which is "black tie".

Hmm ... not too sure about that.

.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

And what, pray tell, is an "edicit"? [huh]

.

I was going to ask who is Edicit?

bk

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Etiquette?

(Now there's a weird-looking word!)

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Edict!

1. A decree or proclamation issued by an authority and having the force of law.
2. A formal pronouncement or command.

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

Yes...I spelled that very wrong. Its what you'd call a "brain fart"? Sorry for the confusion and my bad spelling of the word etiqutte.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Edict!

You wasted your breath, Miss Neecerie. He meant to write "etiquette".

.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

You wasted your breath, Miss Neecerie. He meant to write "etiquette".

.

ahhh well it's not like I don't waste my breath often anyhow.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Only if you're a mouth breather! lol

.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

or etiqutte

sorry ...

bk

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

I think I might do the tails with a cravat and vest (or waistcoat...but that sounds silly to me). I do prefer cravats over bowties. I think it might not seem too out of place these days. Alot of the old etiquette has died or is not very common place. Unless their is a miraculous resurgence in the style of dress I fear we may see things like suits, nice hats ties and so on go all together that and common curtousey, traditional attire . Maybe I'm being too bleak? Or maybe I'm bringing upon this thread an fftopic: ?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It is possible to worry too much about etiquette. Much etiquette advice is groundless for the modern day. For example, you've heard here that black tie (bow, usually) with wing collar will make you look like a butler or waiter. Now, who has regular contact with a butler? I certainly don't. And a waiter wearing tails? Not even at the fanciest wedding, and if he is wearing tails they will fit terribly because they'll be horrid, rented, and polyester.

I cannot imagine anyone in california saying: "My word, madam. That man looks like a butler! Have him removed and flayed; He's offending my eyes".

Wear what looks good (there are things which don't work - patterns, colours etc that will look bad together). This is part of the learning experience. You'll make mistakes. And believe me, when you make a dress mistake, you'll know it! And you will not make the same one again!

bk

 

[Mr. Rover]

Here is a quick preview of me in my vintage Kuppenheimer tuxedo. Better and more pics to come in the next 3 or 4 days (this picture was just taken with my camera off the bulletin board of prom photos):

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

It looks nice from here. Is Kuppenheimer still around? That brand did look very nice in the old advertisements I've seen. But anyway, I did wear a tail coat with a black crvat and vest for Homecoming (which I'm sue you've all seen) but I only got a couple comments saying that I looked like a butler the rest were just fine. I think its the black on white that make you look like a serving person. And you were right Baron, no waiter these days would ever wear tails!

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Any good sources for made-to-measure tail coats? I haven't the jack for true bespoke, and I'm too big for off-the-rack. Also, I noticed the evening tail coats in the 1997 movie Titanic didn't have the same kind of cutaway that you see nowadays. Like this:

http://www.bonnies-treasures.com/c=8qEhGXim38N2Wb36UkzYJVyiA/product/CTCE61105