Formal Wear Primer

[scotrace]

I got my opera pumps yesterday:

Very nice - such a major size difference from your regular shoe. I'm glad they were patient about remaking them. A great addition to your wardrobe.

 

[Cobden]

Morning suit or morning coat? The former is all the same grey whilst the latter is black coat, striped trousers and coloured waistcoat.

Yes, I agree with the topper, etc. One should not upstage the groom.

Buff is sort of beige. The exact tone varies from light brown to almost pastel yellow. As long as it is pastel in tone it is okay.

The cane really can be anything elegant and simple but traditionally it is malacca or ebony with a silver or gold top and straight. A dress cane does not have a crook (that would make it a walking stick as the crook is there to assist with the walking) IMHO but anyhow, it is one's choice.

My apologies for the lack of clarity on my part; it's a black coat with cashmere stripes (I tend to use suit to mean "a set of clothes that are worn together" rather then "set of clothes that match". I think the etymological argument as to which is correct rages!). The waistcoat - not sure I'd describe it as pastel - it's a bit darker then I'd expect a pastel to be. Looks rather smart, if I say so myself, but I shall endeavor to get pics so that others can make a final judgement. A good way to describe the shade is "Fat Controller" - luckily I am not too portly otherwise I certainly wouldn't wear it!

The waistcoat does, I hasten to add, have the sort of buttons I would expect to find on a morning dress waistcoat (half domey sort of coloured clear plastic stuff), and is made of doeskin. The lower pockets (it has four) have flaps. These features make me think it is a morning waistcoat - but if I have picked up the wrong thing in a fit of daltonism, please let me know!

Regarding canes - I always thought canes were evening wear (especially in eboby with a precious top) and walking sticks/umbrella's day wear. Not sure where I got that impression from

 

[Cobden]

Right, here we go. Couple of things: I've not had to opportunity to have it pressed and dry cleaned, hence ignore creases etc. I also know the trousers are too long and will have them sorted. The second to bottom (or bottom-most fastening) button is missing. I have the button and will sew it on in time. The shirt is just a white shirt I threw on - for the wedding it'll be a detachable collar. Ignore wild hair, lack of recent shave, and scuffed shoes - none of these will be the case when worn for an occaision

 

[Boxytheboxed]

Its a bit hard to tell from the photo, but that certainly looks like buff to me. Looks great except the baggy pants.

 

[Dr Kilroy]

It is darker than buff. Buff is something like that:

Your waistcoat looks like biscuit to me.

By the way, are not shoe soles a bit too thick for morning dress?

Best regards, Dr

 

[Cobden]

I think they look thicker then they are on account of being caked in dust and other wear from work - a bit of polish will be applied prior to being worn! They're about a third of an inch thick with an inch heel

 

[Dr Kilroy]

All right, I think this is acceptable.

Best regards, Dr

 

[avedwards]

The waistcoat does, I hasten to add, have the sort of buttons I would expect to find on a morning dress waistcoat (half domey sort of coloured clear plastic stuff), and is made of doeskin. The lower pockets (it has four) have flaps. These features make me think it is a morning waistcoat - but if I have picked up the wrong thing in a fit of daltonism, please let me know!

Sounds like some sort of country waistcoat to me (doeskin and flapped pockets are very common on country waistcoats). I have the same sort of thing in burgundy. Much as I like these sort of waistcoats they are a little bit informal for morning dress in my opinion. As the colour on yours appears to be correct it may be excusable though.

 

[Cobden]

Sounds like some sort of country waistcoat to me (doeskin and flapped pockets are very common on country waistcoats). I have the same sort of thing in burgundy. Much as I like these sort of waistcoats they are a little bit informal for morning dress in my opinion. As the colour on yours appears to be correct it may be excusable though.

Funnily enough, I thought that when I bought it. However, the domed buttons and the fact that it was on a coat hanger with all the other morning dress waistcoats and included several grey and buffish ones which were otherwise identical (with the pocket flaps, domed buttons and the same doeskin material) all by different manufacturers in different sizes though all dating from roughly the same time (well...30's -to 60's!) made me think that such features could well have been an established norm at the time. It was the grey ones especially that made me think twice, and they were very much the normal grey shade for morning dress (grey being a colour I can see!) and unlikely to be normal seperates

Will welcome further thoughts on the issue, naturally

 

[Boxytheboxed]

I have a few questions before I embark on a vintage dinner jacket buying rampage:

1 I have a nice set of black braces, can or should I wear these with the DJ? I'll probably be wearing a waistcoat, so I imagine not. Honestly I'm not even sure why my pants have buttons for braces...

2 My DJ has grosgrain lapels, would wearing a black waistcoat with satin revers be unacceptable? If not I could get a self-faced white waistcoat, although I'm not sure I'll like that look.

3 I'm considering a red cummerbund if the waistcoat doesn't pan out. Is that kosher with a black DJ? I do live in Florida, so its plenty hot.

Thanks for the help I'm sure to receive

 

[Charlie Huang]

It is darker than buff. Buff is something like that:

Your waistcoat looks like biscuit to me.

By the way, are not shoe soles a bit too thick for morning dress?

Best regards, Dr

Now to my (slightly colourblind) eye, that is more of a pink...

 

[Charlie Huang]

Right, here we go. Couple of things: I've not had to opportunity to have it pressed and dry cleaned, hence ignore creases etc. I also know the trousers are too long and will have them sorted. The second to bottom (or bottom-most fastening) button is missing. I have the button and will sew it on in time. The shirt is just a white shirt I threw on - for the wedding it'll be a detachable collar. Ignore wild hair, lack of recent shave, and scuffed shoes - none of these will be the case when worn for an occaision

Looks good though I would say the sleeves might need shortening.

The waistcoat is fine to have flap but as AEdwards have said, the flap pockets are a country feature. Nevertheless, still acceptable.

 

[Lokar]

I have a few questions before I embark on a vintage dinner jacket buying rampage:

1 I have a nice set of black braces, can or should I wear these with the DJ? I'll probably be wearing a waistcoat, so I imagine not. Honestly I'm not even sure why my pants have buttons for braces...

2 My DJ has grosgrain lapels, would wearing a black waistcoat with satin revers be unacceptable? If not I could get a self-faced white waistcoat, although I'm not sure I'll like that look.

3 I'm considering a red cummerbund if the waistcoat doesn't pan out. Is that kosher with a black DJ? I do live in Florida, so its plenty hot.

Thanks for the help I'm sure to receive

1) Braces are by far the best thing to wear with black tie - a belt adds too much bulk and the waistcoat/cummerbund has an unsightly bulge underneath.

2) I don't know about acceptable, but it would certainly look odd and I'd not do it. A white waistcoat is fine with black tie, but it's a more formal look of course - I'd only use a dinner jacket with peaked lapels with a white waistcoat.

3) Red cummerbunds are definitely fine. The bow tie must always be black of course, but within reason cummerbunds can be any colour.

(ignore the blue bow tie!)

 

[Charlie Huang]

I have a few questions before I embark on a vintage dinner jacket buying rampage:

1 I have a nice set of black braces, can or should I wear these with the DJ? I'll probably be wearing a waistcoat, so I imagine not. Honestly I'm not even sure why my pants have buttons for braces...

2 My DJ has grosgrain lapels, would wearing a black waistcoat with satin revers be unacceptable? If not I could get a self-faced white waistcoat, although I'm not sure I'll like that look.

3 I'm considering a red cummerbund if the waistcoat doesn't pan out. Is that kosher with a black DJ? I do live in Florida, so its plenty hot.

Thanks for the help I'm sure to receive

1. Yes, braces must be worn. A belt is a no-no. Just install buttons for the braces (the positions have already been discussed in another thread).

2. They ought to be grosgrain but it could be self-faced. White waistcoat (the same used for white tie) is an acceptable alternative.

3. No, must always be black (or midnight blue if DJ is in that colour, etc). Material in your case ought to be grosgrain though barathea would be acceptable if you wear a barathea silk bow tie so they at least match.

 

[Lokar]

3. No, must always be black (or midnight blue if DJ is in that colour, etc).

I'd dispute that (especially in America, where our UK rules don't always apply and that needs to be taken into account). There are plenty of examples on the black tie guide (and this forum). And as the black tie guide quotes:

The Handbook of English Costume of the Nineteenth Century contains an 1889 period description of the original cummerbund as a crimson or black silk "sash" wrapped around the waist four times.

Right from the start crimson has been there, and it's always been acceptable, if uncommon, and again, especially in the US.

 

[Cobden]

Looks good though I would say the sleeves might need shortening.

The waistcoat is fine to have flap but as AEdwards have said, the flap pockets are a country feature. Nevertheless, still acceptable.

I think it's more that my arms need lengthening...

I do prefer a longer sleeve, but I shall probably get them shortened after the wedding (I don't have time before hand to guarantee it would be done in time). I may look for another waistcoat afterwards - probably a grey (if I can find one, DB) one for winter clambakes (I appreciate there is no rule on this - apart from a grey coat being inappropriate for anything other then summer - but I think a nice touch). The country feature of the pocket flaps may work well, considering that the wedding is in rural Kent

 

[Charlie Huang]

I'd dispute that (especially in America, where our UK rules don't always apply and that needs to be taken into account). There are plenty of examples on the black tie guide (and this forum). And as the black tie guide quotes:



Right from the start crimson has been there, and it's always been acceptable, if uncommon, and again, especially in the US.

I don't very much care for the red cummerbund look to be fair...

 

[Charlie Huang]

I think it's more that my arms need lengthening...

I do prefer a longer sleeve, but I shall probably get them shortened after the wedding (I don't have time before hand to guarantee it would be done in time). I may look for another waistcoat afterwards - probably a grey (if I can find one, DB) one for winter clambakes (I appreciate there is no rule on this - apart from a grey coat being inappropriate for anything other then summer - but I think a nice touch). The country feature of the pocket flaps may work well, considering that the wedding is in rural Kent

You ought to show some cuff sleeves, otherwise they look long.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Blog about opera pumps that I just wrote last night:

http://charlesrupertdomeki.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/court-shoes-opera-pumps/

 

[Lokar]

I don't very much care for the red cummerbund look to be fair...

Neither do I, really (and would never wear it myself). It's just not wrong.