Formal Wear Primer

[Charlie Huang]

I have question about shirt studs that I will pose to the group. I am fairly tall and as the evening progresses my cummerbund starts to slide down, revealing my white shirt button. Should I spring for an extra set of studs so I can cover this, or just not worry about it? The cummerbund is not of a high-quality, and the elastic may be giving too much causing the droop. Or it's just me getting older and having a slight belly!

Wear a waistcoat and that will solve your problem for good.

 

[avedwards]

Speaking of cummerbunds, I had a query of my own. Now that my dinner jacket has trousers which are worn at the waist as opposed to at the hips like my previous dinner jacket, does one wear the elastic part of the cummerbund on the waistband of the trousers or just above the waistband so that it is on the shirt?

 

[Charlie Huang]

Wherever the elastic falls. If you have a really high fishtail back then it inevitably will fall on the trouser, or are you on about something else???

 

[Bugsy]

Wear a waistcoat and that will solve your problem for good.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[rlandrews3rd]

Wear a waistcoat and that will solve your problem for good.

I'm not sure about a waistcoat with a shawl collar tuxedo.

 

[avedwards]

I'm not sure about a waistcoat with a shawl collar tuxedo.

I do it all the time. No reason why it shouldn't work. It's a peaked lapel with a cummerbund which can look a odd sometimes (especially if it's a wide 30s peak).

 

[Tomasso]

I'm not sure about a waistcoat with a shawl collar tuxedo.

Ditto!
But then rules are for fools....

 

[dhermann1]

I just thought I'd post this shot of myself from last night at the Salon, at the Edison Ballroom in New York. The dinner suit was acquired from fellow Lounger Orgitorix a couple of years ago, and has seen MANY wearings since then. The lid is a Penn-Craft, acquired from Lounger Garrett.
It was a great night, I'll post a link for pics on the NY Events thread.

I brought the outfit to work with me and changed there. And yes, I was kicking myself for forgetting my pocket square.

 

[Dr Kilroy]

I could criticize you for these things:
1. No pocket square.
2. Too many shirt studs.
3. I would replace the fedora with a homburg, but this is Fedora Lounge after all!

Nevertheless, you look great!

Best regards, Dr

 

[Tomasso]

I could criticize you for these things:
1. No pocket square.
2. Too many shirt studs.
3. I would replace the fedora with a homburg, but this is Fedora Lounge after all!

Nevertheless, you look great!

:eusa_doh:

So, he should wear two.....

 

[Dr Kilroy]

To be precise he should wear a different shirt with three or two studs (with studs ), but I am afraid that these are not available ready to wear. I even prefer boiled front shirt where one stud is perfect!

By the way, what is the waist covering?

Best regards, Dr

 

[dhermann1]

So I should just leave one buttonhole empty? One stud per buttonhole sort of seems sensible. I'm wearing a cummerbund, as per the preponderance of opinion here for a shawl collar. Yes, as I said, I was kicking myself over the pocket square.
As for the hat, I have a very nice Stetson homburg. (There was a very cool story attached to it actually, which was posted a couple of years ago.) But I just didn't like the way it looked, so when I saw this lid for sale I grabbed it. My precedent is Cary Grant in "Topper". He winds up dead, but becomes the coolest ghost in America.
Edit: The one stud shirt would be nice. Where can I get one?

 

[Dr Kilroy]

No, I just say that in matter of shirt studs, less is more. Leaving buttonholes empty will rather not do, however. I am also afraid that soft front shirts are not available with less than four studs and stiff front ones with less than three. Bespoke is the only way, I think.

Best regards, Dr

 

[avedwards]

I could criticize you for these things:
1. No pocket square.
2. Too many shirt studs.
3. I would replace the fedora with a homburg, but this is Fedora Lounge after all!

1. The lack of pocket square is by no means a faux pas. Whilst a pocket square is a common accessory which in my opinion improves the look of a dinner jacket, it has never been an essential part of black tie or any other formal outfit.
2. I think three shirt studs is acceptable given that dhermann is wearing a cummerbund. If he had a waistcoat perhaps two would be more appropriate, but with a cummerbund the trousers would have to be worn at his ribcage if he wanted to only show two shirt studs, and whilst I like high waisted trousers there is a limit to how high they should be worn.
3. A homburg would arguably be a more preferable choice, but I think dhermann's choice of fedora is acceptable given the colour and brim width.

 

[Dr Kilroy]

1. The lack of pocket square is by no means a faux pas. Whilst a pocket square is a common accessory which in my opinion improves the look of a dinner jacket, it has never been an essential part of black tie or any other formal outfit.

Of course, but I just thought that with pocket square it would look better.

2. I think three shirt studs is acceptable given that dhermann is wearing a cummerbund. If he had a waistcoat perhaps two would be more appropriate, but with a cummerbund the trousers would have to be worn at his ribcage if he wanted to only show two shirt studs, and whilst I like high waisted trousers there is a limit to how high they should be worn.

In my opinion the best number of studs with stiff front is one and soft front is two, but I think that one more in both categories is all right. Nevertheless, less is more!

3. A homburg would arguably be a more preferable choice, but I think dhermann's choice of fedora is acceptable given the colour and brim width.

I wrote that I would use a homburg, but the fedora which was used by dhermann is also acceptable.

Best regards, Dr

 

[dhermann1]

Doesn't the degree of formality also impact this? The shawl collar is less formal that the peak lapel. I'm wondering if the 4 stud shirt is also appropriately slightly less formal. To a true purist the dinner jacket is considered "informal", as compared to white tie, anyway. And as I said, I was going for a slightly jazzier tone. The event was a big party at a classic Art Deco venue in Manhattan. There were only a few gents there in black tie, and of those several had notch lapel dinner jackets (anathema) without waistcoat OR cummerbund (double, triple anathema!). Actually, the lack of cummerband looked pretty awful.
Anyhow, I think I did the Lounge reasonably proud sartorially. I got a lot of compliments and "looks" thoughout the evening.

 

[avedwards]

Doesn't the degree of formality also impact this? The shawl collar is less formal that the peak lapel. I'm wondering if the 4 stud shirt is also appropriately slightly less formal. To a true purist the dinner jacket is considered "informal", as compared to white tie, anyway. And as I said, I was going for a slightly jazzier tone. The event was a big party at a classic Art Deco venue in Manhattan. There were only a few gents there in black tie, and of those several had notch lapel dinner jackets (anathema) without waistcoat OR cummerbund (double, triple anathema!). Actually, the lack of cummerband looked pretty awful.
Anyhow, I think I did the Lounge reasonably proud sartorially. I got a lot of compliments and "looks" thoughout the evening.

I think your look was fine and certainly did the FL proud. However, whilst the peak lapel is slightly more formal than the shawl lapel, I think this is often over-exaggerated by the experts of the lounge. A shawl collar is still formal enough to be worn with a waistcoat (though your choice of a cummerbund was perfectly appropriate) and contrary to what the experts here say I think there is nothing aesthetically or sartorially wrong with this.

 

[Dr Kilroy]

I am also in the shawl-collar-with-waistcoat camp. This is also the most traditional way.

Best regards, Dr

 

[dhermann1]

I've tried the waistcoat with that jacket, both white and black, and neither looked so hot. Now maybe it was the cut of the waistcoats involved, neither of which were of very high quality.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I'm not sure about a waistcoat with a shawl collar tuxedo.

Why not? If one simply limits things to the extreme then black tie would be sooner to the grave than you could think...