Flattening Brim & Stitching Sweatband?

[ChicagoWayVito]

I think this becomes an issue with a hat when you try to reblock it. Pull it down onto the block can some times reveal that weaken that was done with a machine and rip the felt on the brim break where it meets the crown. Not always, but it can weaken it to this degree.

Any damage to felt from a machine stitched sweat would to me indicate one or two issues in the setup. The first and maybe most important is the stitch length. We want long stitches and not something that you would find on say the brim binding. The other would be thread tension, if the tension is too tight then it could cut into the felt. So I can see it happening but to @humanshoes point, the operator must take great care to setup the machine just right. I have done this operation both ways by hand and on the ASM clone of the Singer machine for sewing in the sweats. Reblocking would only expose an issue if proper setup wasn't performed.

 

[suitedcboy]

I am a doubter of felt damage from needle piercing felt. If the needle is sharp I don't see it cutting through hairs as much as dodging around them. Like what happens when you sew buttons on a shirt. I will say that I have had some long worn, heavily sweat stained hats torn in that area. They were lesser grade hats and I would think the felt was fragile from some organism that liked hair and human protein carried with skin cells in the sweated area. I would be very suspicious of moderate or higher beaver content felt that is new and was damaged by sweatband sewing.

 

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

I agree with the last couple of replies. I get a fair number of used hats for refurbishing and have only seen one hat with damage to the crown. That hat was inexpensive to begin with, old, and WELL worn. I too think the issue was most likely poor quality manufacturing (Heavy thread tension) and too close a thread pattern.

 

[jdouglasj]

Sorry for double-posting but I wasn’t getting any action on the “Ask a Question” thread...

How do I flatten my brim?

The brim of my hat is supposed to be the same the whole way around—an upward flange that isn’t higher on the side or lower in the front. The hat stretched a smidge yesterday (I wanted to stretch it and so I pulled it down tight and wore it like that all day) and now the sides of the brim have gone up about 1/4-inch, which has dropped the front of the brim down about 1/4-inch. When I put my fingers on the edges of the brim and pull down 1/4-inch on the sides, the front goes up 1/4-inch in the front and everything evens out as it should.

What is the best way to bring down the sides of my brim 1/4-inch and keep them there? It’s tricky because, as I said, the brim flanges upward and so I don’t want to iron out that upward flange.

Second, does anyone know a milliner in Chicago who could do this for me? Optimo won’t do it. I know I can send it back to Arizona and lose it for a month, which isn’t really what I want to do right now for this slight problem.

 

[belfastboy]

Sorry for double-posting but I wasn’t getting any action on the “Ask a Question” thread...

How do I flatten my brim?

The brim of my hat is supposed to be the same the whole way around—an upward flange that isn’t higher on the side or lower in the front. The hat stretched a smidge yesterday (I wanted to stretch it and so I pulled it down tight and wore it like that all day) and now the sides of the brim have gone up about 1/4-inch, which has dropped the front of the brim down about 1/4-inch. When I put my fingers on the edges of the brim and pull down 1/4-inch on the sides, the front goes up 1/4-inch in the front and everything evens out as it should.

What is the best way to bring down the sides of my brim 1/4-inch and keep them there? It’s tricky because, as I said, the brim flanges upward and so I don’t want to iron out that upward flange.

Second, does anyone know a milliner in Chicago who could do this for me? Optimo won’t do it. I know I can send it back to Arizona and lose it for a month, which isn’t really what I want to do right now for this slight problem.

You are experiencing what happens when you stretch a hat. A hat is an integral piece and when you stretch one aspect it affects the others. Putting front to back tension pushes up the sides of the brim. You can attempt to iron the brim but it is not likely to work as when you place it back on your head you re introduce the tension. This is why I have never had great experience in stretching a hat. To me it either fits you and is comfortable or it isn't.....black/white. Falcon Park (Chicago) is still in business and they may do 'hat renovations'. They have a website and have been in business for a long while now

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Sorry for double-posting but I wasn’t getting any action on the “Ask a Question” thread...

How do I flatten my brim?

The brim of my hat is supposed to be the same the whole way around—an upward flange that isn’t higher on the side or lower in the front. The hat stretched a smidge yesterday (I wanted to stretch it and so I pulled it down tight and wore it like that all day) and now the sides of the brim have gone up about 1/4-inch, which has dropped the front of the brim down about 1/4-inch. When I put my fingers on the edges of the brim and pull down 1/4-inch on the sides, the front goes up 1/4-inch in the front and everything evens out as it should.

What is the best way to bring down the sides of my brim 1/4-inch and keep them there? It’s tricky because, as I said, the brim flanges upward and so I don’t want to iron out that upward flange.

Second, does anyone know a milliner in Chicago who could do this for me? Optimo won’t do it. I know I can send it back to Arizona and lose it for a month, which isn’t really what I want to do right now for this slight problem.

The physics of what happened when you pulled it down are easier to understand if you can imagine the brim as a separate ring from the crown with an OD & an ID. You can't change (stretch) the ID without moving the felt throughout the width of the brim all the way out to the OD, resulting in a distorted wavy brim. The stretched material has to go somewhere. Sometimes you can hide it in a brim snapped down sharply, but that's why you see so many wavy brims show up here.

 

[jdouglasj]

I think Watson's missed the mark on the brim by quite a bit. I wasn't looking for an exact replica. We discussed what we were changing from the Plainview, but I didn't tell him I wanted a different brim. I still like the hat, but I wish I could see it with the right brim. And i wish it could be just a smidge larger.

And of course if the brim is redone to replicate the original Plainview then my brim will appear shorter.

Take a look at the distance between the top of my ears and the brim of the hat. It looks like the hat rides too high here. What do you think?

 

[jdouglasj]

The physics of what happened when you pulled it down are easier to understand if you can imagine the brim as a separate ring from the crown with an OD & an ID. You can't change (stretch) the ID without moving the felt throughout the width of the brim all the way out to the OD, resulting in a distorted wavy brim. The stretched material has to go somewhere. Sometimes you can hide it in a brim snapped down sharply, but that's why you see so many wavy brims show up here.

So is there no fixing this? If I sent the hat back with all the attached pictures, do you think I could stretch the hat and get the brim and fit I want, or is the die already cast?

 

[belfastboy]

I think Watson's missed the mark on the brim by quite a bit. I wasn't looking for an exact replica. We discussed what we were changing from the Plainview, but I didn't tell him I wanted a different brim. I still like the hat, but I wish I could see it with the right brim. And i wish it could be just a smidge larger.

And of course if the brim is redone to replicate the original Plainview then my brim will appear shorter.

Take a look at the distance between the top of my ears and the brim of the hat. It looks like the hat rides too high here. What do you think?

Your hat def sits higher than DD Lewis'. If the hat is reblocked and the sweat bigger the brim can relax into its original intent. It does not take much tension to distort the brim.

 

[jdouglasj]

Yes, the hat sits higher, and the brim doesn't have the same flange as the DDL hat. I like that the hat stays on my head in the wind and if I go a smidge too big, it wont'. Right now I would say that I am happy with how it feels, but I'm wondering if the overall look can be improved. I'm happy with the pinch.

Do we have any fashion designers who can tell me if they think the DDL brim (less flat, more flange) will look better on me? It's looks better on DDL, but he'd look better than me if he were wearing a foam trucker's cap. If I send this back, I suspect I won't send it back a second time.

So looking at the hat on my mug, questions #1 and #3 are fashion questions, and #2 is a practical question.

1. Should the hat sit lower than it does?
2. If the hat is adjusted to sit lower, does that mean it will be looser and more apt to fly off in the wind?
3. Do you think the hat would look better on me if I more closely mimicked the DDL brim (more even all around with more flange)?

 

[Hurricane Jack]

So is there no fixing this? If I sent the hat back with all the attached pictures, do you think I could stretch the hat and get the brim and fit I want, or is the die already cast?

I would agree with belfastboy that the hat sits higher than the movie hat. Are you satisfied with the crown height & blocking (not to be confused with the crease)? If so then he can use the same block but it is likely that the sweat will need to be removed, the hat reblocked to the correct size & fit, then the brim reflanged. I would take several measurements yourself if I were you using a soft seamstress measuring tape. If you have some help maybe measure from above your ear where you want the hat to sit, up & over the top of your head to above the other ear. If you are talking about a cm or less in size I don't think you will lose much brim width.

 

[belfastboy]

Yes, the hat sits higher, and the brim doesn't have the same flange as the DDL hat. I like that the hat stays on my head in the wind and if I go a smidge too big, it wont'. Right now I would say that I am happy with how it feels, but I'm wondering if the overall look can be improved. I'm happy with the pinch.

Do we have any fashion designers who can tell me if they think the DDL brim (less flat, more flange) will look better on me? It's looks better on DDL, but he'd look better than me if he were wearing a foam trucker's cap. If I send this back, I suspect I won't send it back a second time.

So looking at the hat on my mug, questions #1 and #3 are fashion questions, and #2 is a practical question.

1. Should the hat sit lower than it does?
2. If the hat is adjusted to sit lower, does that mean it will be looser and more apt to fly off in the wind?
3. Do you think the hat would look better on me if I more closely mimicked the DDL brim (more even all around with more flange)?

1. this is a personal decision. I prefer my hats to sit lower but others like it sitting higher....no right/wrong here.
2 When I make a hat for a client I ask him to measure his head where he wants the hat to sit. I then ask does he like the hat to fit snug or more loosely
and from that determine the blocking and sweat sizing. So the answer is the hat should fit how you want it to fit where you want it to sit.
3. Again a personal decision. Where does it feel most comfortable for you? Where it sits will you feel most comfortable and confident in the wearing?

 

[belfastboy]

I would agree with belfastboy that the hat sits higher than the movie hat. Are you satisfied with the crown height & blocking (not to be confused with the crease)? If so then he can use the same block but it is likely that the sweat will need to be removed, the hat reblocked to the correct size & fit, then the brim reflanged. I would take several measurements yourself if I were you using a soft seamstress measuring tape. If you have some help maybe measure from above your ear where you want the hat to sit, up & over the top of your head to above the other ear. If you are talking about a cm or less in size I don't think you will lose much brim width.

Yes, I suspect he is dealing with as little as 1/3 to 1/2cm increase

 

[jdouglasj]

I would agree with belfastboy that the hat sits higher than the movie hat. Are you satisfied with the crown height & blocking (not to be confused with the crease)? If so then he can use the same block but it is likely that the sweat will need to be removed, the hat reblocked to the correct size & fit, then the brim reflanged. I would take several measurements yourself if I were you using a soft seamstress measuring tape. If you have some help maybe measure from above your ear where you want the hat to sit, up & over the top of your head to above the other ear. If you are talking about a cm or less in size I don't think you will lose much brim width.

Yes, definitely less than a centimeter in size change, although if i have the brim flanged up like the DDL hat, my perceived brim width will likely decline from what it is now.

I think I'll be sending it back for modifications. Anyone can see how it differs from the DDL hat (rides higher, brim needs a more gradual upward flange rather than the flatter brim and sharper flange on my hat, and DDL's hat looks a little flatter on top, not as domed as mine), but I'm still hoping I'll find a designer here who will give me a yea or nay on whether or not those modifications will look better on me. At this point I'm asking a fashion question rather than an engineering question.

I think--I think but I don't know--that the DDL flange looks a little more fashionable and relaxed, whereas the flatter flange on my hat looks like a hat for more serious business. I want the more relaxed look. But is there a poster with a designer's eye here who can weigh in?

I know you said it's a personal decision, but a designer will have a better eye than I do. That's why I put a lot of stock in good salesmen with a real eye for design when I'm shopping for clothes (such salesmen are few and far between).

Yesterday, I thought the hat was just a bit too tight, but I do want to be able to bring it down a 1/2-inch to keep it on my head on windy days. So i have to make a decision on the look I want for my brim, and then I have to decide where I want the hat to sit. Then, I guess, I have to have someone measure me (although Watson's already measured me so I don't know if I need to do it again).

Apologies again for starting two threads on this and repeating the same thing in both places.

 

[Rmccamey]

It is a personal decision, to be certain, and none of us wants to wear a hat that does not fit or we don't believe "looks right" as we wear it. But let me comment with no intent to offend you or any one of the great folks here on TFL. I am sometimes more detail oriented than I need to be and sometimes I have to remind myself to put away the micrometer, the. Microscope, the color charts and the comparison spreadsheets and simply accept that this organic thing I have called a hat will have its own idiosyncrasies. I can stretch it a little and I can mess with the crease and sometimes the crown is a bit short or a bit tall and sometimes the brim has too much curl or not enough. Sometime the brim acts better when it is up or snapped down in front. The first vintage I hat I ever bought, a Royal Deluxe OR, has the low point of the front brim over my left eye instead of squarely symmetric over my nose regardless of my efforts to steam it into shape. It took me a while but I finally figured out that some hats "have a mind of their own" and that it is OK to accept and appreciate the quirkiness of some of the hats in my collection. As a wise mentor told me in my early days of wearing hats, you have to wear the hat and don't let the hat wear you.

Mayser straw

 

[johnnycanuck]

Hat looks good to me. Crown height is right, fit your face. Brim looks good without being overbearing. It is not a bound brim so the brim does look different. I can tell it has a slight flange compared to the movie, that has a deeper flange. But I am not sure how a deeper flange would look on your face. From what I am seeing in the photo, what you have really suits you. Looks very natural like you have always worn that hat.
The movie hat has the lived in look as well. Yours looks new and pristine.
To answer your questions #1 up to you. Looks good as is but if you want it lower it can be. #2 if your hat is loose it can blow off in the wind. But I have only had one hat blow off in the wind myself. It was a new Akubra with a stiff brim and I wasn’t careful to hold it on my head. After a little wear all my hats conform to my head and if I come up against a stiff wind that is when I snug it down to my ears. #3 my personal opinion.... no. That brim looks good on you. DDL has a skinny face a pointy chin and a moustache. You do not look like DDL. That hat looks fantastic on you and I personally think you should embrace it and wear it to get that lovely worn in look.
If you want the hat a little looser I would buy a hat Jack and do it myself. I personally feel everyone who wears a hat regularly will need one eventually anyway.
Hope that helps.
Johnny.
PS I understand your hunt for the perfect hat. As an Indiana Jones fan I feel the pain. But I don’t look like Harrison Ford so I have a nice brown fedora that looks great on me that has the IJ vibe.