Flat Brim Assistance - Akubra Down Under

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

Hello to All,

I recently purchased my first Akubra hat, that being a lightly used Down Under version. The plan was to get the brim dead flat and then shape the crown to a cattleman style. First Akubra, first attempt at reshaping. Everything was going great. I got the brim steamed and flattened, then placed a ring over the brim with some light weights to let the hat dry out and retain the shape. Now when I tried the hat on, it takes on wings and dips as seen in the pics. The hat fits fine, with what I would call the normal amount of resistance to keep it in place during light winds. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
Brian

 

[belfastboy]

Hello to All,

I recently purchased my first Akubra hat, that being a lightly used Down Under version. The plan was to get the brim dead flat and then shape the crown to a cattleman style. First Akubra, first attempt at reshaping. Everything was going great. I got the brim steamed and flattened, then placed a ring over the brim with some light weights to let the hat dry out and retain the shape. Now when I I tried the hat on, it takes on wings and dips as seen in the pics. The hat fits fine, with what I would call the normal amount of resistance to keep it in place during light winds. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
Brian

Is the brim still stiff or did it floppy up some with the steaming?

Does it feel a bit tight front to back? That type of drooping can indicate too tight front and back and is pulling the brim downward.

 

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

Is the brim still stiff or did it floppy up some with the steaming?

Does it feel a bit tight front to back? That type of drooping can indicate too tight front and back and is pulling the brim downward.

Hello BB,
The slight resistance is on the front and back. It doesn’t feel like I am over-forcing it on, but as you say, there is some kind of torque that is snapping it up and down. Would the next move be a Hat Jack?
Brian

 

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

The brim retained its medium stiffness ....

 

[Who?]

Hello BB,
The slight resistance is on the front and back. It doesn’t feel like I am over-forcing it on, but as you say, there is some kind of torque that is snapping it up and down. Would the next move be a Hat Jack?
Brian

Are you a long oval? It sounds as if you are.

 

[belfastboy]

Hello BB,
The slight resistance is on the front and back. It doesn’t feel like I am over-forcing it on, but as you say, there is some kind of torque that is snapping it up and down. Would the next move be a Hat Jack?
Brian

It gets tricky because a hat jack just increases the torque on the brim.

If the tightness is slight and it sat flat before the steaming I have had success in stiffening the brim a bit more. But usually Akubra brims are stiff to begin with. As WHO? suggests I suspect you at least tend towards a LongOval head shape. So the size of the hat is good but you are longer front to back and that is slightly torqueing the brim. It might be easier to surrender to the will of the hat and get used to the Packer downturn on the brim.

 

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

It gets tricky because a hat jack just increases the torque on the brim.

If the tightness is slight and it sat flat before the steaming I have had success in stiffening the brim a bit more. But usually Akubra brims are stiff to begin with. As WHO? suggests I suspect you at least tend towards a LongOval head shape. So the size of the hat is good but you are longer front to back and that is slightly torqueing the brim. It might be easier to surrender to the will of the hat and get used to the Packer downturn on the brim.

Naw, It was never flat when I was wearing it. Being new to hats, I have not properly diagnosed my head shape yet. Long Oval limits your pickings to be sure. I may have to upsize from 59 to 60 and shim the sides (?)

 

[belfastboy]

Naw, It was never flat when I was wearing it. Being new to hats, I have not properly diagnosed my head shape yet. Long Oval limits your pickings to be sure. I may have to upsize from 59 to 60 and shim the sides (?)

Yes, that is the one way to overcome it. The other is to bite the bullet and go custom. But, full disclosure, I am a custom hatter so I do have a distinct bias.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Hi Brian. I got your PM & thank you for your compliments on my Down Under. As this could get lengthy I thought it best to reply here. And I wanted to point out that I have come to believe there might be two generations or two versions of the Down Under, perhaps over time. Mine is very much sized dimensionally & blocked like the Camp Draft. @johnnycanuck has one more outback/western with the packer draw similar to yours I believe.

Being new to hats you probably don’t have a band block cut to the shape of your head? Anytime I do any brim work with either copious amounts of hot steam &/or a hot iron I want my band block in place to try & protect the sweat by working as a heat sink, & to keep the sweat from drawing up & shrinking. Without a band block you can try to adjust a two dimensional hat jack to size as best you can.

Find a good hard surface you can iron on, & small enough you might be able to hold in your lap while sitting. I use a glass carousel plate from an old junk microwave. Another thing that would work well is a countertop cutout from a kitchen sink & you can usually buy them for nothing at home & hardware stores. They sell the drops for cutting boards. The old Formica tops that won’t scorch or burn work best.

When you iron a brim you want plenty of water to make steam that will go into the felt, not just in the air, & you do just a couple of sections at a time repeating as necessary. With the packer draw I would suggest doing the front & back brim, repeating 2-3,times as necessary. Leave the sides for another day.

With the hat upright on the ironing surface & band block in place I pour distilled water on the brim felt on the section I’m working until I have a small standing puddle. I lay a padded hot pad/potholder (like grandma used to make) on top as my ironing cloth & iron on it. With a hot iron the potholder will force the steam made from the water down into the felt, & as long as you don’t iron off the potholder no harm will come to the felt. I don’t even use the steam function of the iron. Start in close near the brim brake & work out to the brim edge as you iron the small area. Keeping the sweat in mind you can work an area too long & risk damaging the sweat. That’s why it may take coming back 2-3 times. When you think you need to leave an area I just take the iron away but leave the potholder in place so the ironed section will cool slowly before moving on.

Keep in mind there are physics at play here. If a brim has too much flange from when it was blocked that felt has to go somewhere when you iron out that flange. Sometimes you can move the excess from a deep flange out to the brim edge & end up with a bit of a small pencil curl. Without totally tearing down & reblocking, not every hat is always going to be a good candidate for whatever it is you might want to do.

It helps if you’re mechanically inclined & handy in the real world. YMMV.

 

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

All good information, and lots of it! I have seen videos that suggest using a stretcher first and then coming back and ironing the brim afterwards. It does not include your great detail. I had been waiting to find myself an Akubra and would hate to have to give this one up so soon. The pics below show the “Guts” of the hat, which may or may not date it. I also have some hatband ideas I am contemplating. The coin is a Mexican 2 Reales from 1863.
Appreciate your response,
Brian in Tennessee

 

[Who?]

Sometimes it is better to accept a thing for what it is, rather than try to make it into that which it is not.

 

[johnnycanuck]

Good day Brian.
First of all, welcome to the lounge and congratulations on buying your first Akubra. I personally own two Down Under models and I find them to be fantastic hats.
Second. Congratulations on re-shaping the crown. Not an easy task to get rid of the “ghost lines” from a previous bash.
Third. Looks like you suffer from Long Oval head shape as I do. We should start a club. It always forces a perfectly flat hat down in the front and back weather we like it or not.

All good information, and lots of it! I have seen videos that suggest using a stretcher first and then coming back and ironing the brim afterwards. It does not include your great detail. I had been waiting to find myself an Akubra and would hate to have to give this one up so soon. The pics below show the “Guts” of the hat, which may or may not date it. I also have some hatband ideas I am contemplating. The coin is a Mexican 2 Reales from 1863.
Appreciate your response,
Brian in Tennessee

if your going to try and iron the brim flat you can use a hat Jack but it has to be your head shape. Mine is such a long oval I need a small sized hat Jack to get the shape right.
It’s a great looking hat but you may have more success with a flatter brim to start with. I know one guy who made a nice “Hell on Wheels” hat out of a Akubra Cattleman.
I have learned to accept the swoosh in all my hats. I only have one that maintained a flat brim. An RCMP Biltmore hat. Even at that it’s a challenge.
Best of luck. Enjoy your hats.
Johnny

 

[Who?]

I hereby declare myself a Charter Member of the Fedora Lounge Long Oval Club.

 

[belfastboy]

I hear by declare myself a Charter Member of the Fedora Lounge Long Oval Club.

I find I use my Long Oval hat blocks more often than the Regular Oval blocks in making custom hats. I think many men tend towards some degree of Long oval. I have many band blocks purchased from a retired hatter and many of them do tend towards Long oval. Thankfully I have only ever come across one Extra long oval.....now that shape is a bitch to fit properly.

 

[Skinny Mule Ranch]

Ok, I read a post by Banjomerlin that had a table for measurements to determine head size. Now to determine where I fall. Using heavy bailing wire, I fashioned a halo around my coconut at the hat line. The width measurement was 6.25” with the length coming in at 8.5”. Long Oval is 2 1/8” difference and up (2 7/8” is XLO). Penning the tune “Long Oval blues” as I write this.

I am not giving up easily though. I have made a template to make my own hat stretcher using the bailing wire halo as a pattern. See how it goes from here. These hats are tough and it will take some patience. Without ruining the hat, it will either work, or I will have an excellent Down Under example for sale and will try again with a 60 cm Hat, rather than a 59. I am enjoying the help and comments on the boards and will keep you all updated on any progress.

Keep on keepin’ on!
Brian in Tennessee

 

[belfastboy]

Ok, I read a post by Banjomerlin that had a table for measurements to determine head size. Now to determine where I fall. Using heavy bailing wire, I fashioned a halo around my coconut at the hat line. The width measurement was 6.25” with the length coming in at 8.5”. Long Oval is 2 1/8” difference and up (2 7/8” is XLO). Penning the tune “Long Oval blues” as I write this.

I am not giving up easily though. I have made a template to make my own hat stretcher using the bailing wire halo as a pattern. See how it goes from here. These hats are tough and it will take some patience. Without ruining the hat, it will either work, or I will have an excellent Down Under example for sale and will try again with a 60 cm Hat, rather than a 59. I am enjoying the help and comments on the boards and will keep you all updated on any progress.

Keep on keepin’ on!
Brian in Tennessee

Based on the measurements of my Long Oval blocks you qualify as a spot on Long Oval. Welcome to the club.

 

[StoryPNW]

You've got good resources helping to steer you in the correct direction here, I too am in the long oval club and feel your pain. I have been able to lessen the effects of my long oval noggin on my Akubra Cattleman but haven't got it to flattened entirely, but I am ok with the results I have achieved. Best of luck to you!