Five Star Leather Jackets

[Canuck Panda]

I don't necessarily agree with that.
My attempts to get a size specification from the manufacturer with this information were extremely unsatisfactory. The jackets would have been significantly too large throughout.
Especially at the hips and stomach, I could have wrapped them around twice.
For average statures may possibly still go.

I am in the process of writing down how I determine the body measurements and translate them into jacket measurements. Maybe this will help one or the other.

In any case, I prefer to give my own measurements of the jacket and not my body measurements.
Of course, then I have to make adjustments depending on the style of the jacket and the material used. But I have found that the thickness of the leather is less important than I thought. I hope my assumption is still correct when I get my 2mm HH, which has the same measurements as the brown one lol

I am NOT arguing on how you spec your jacket.

Only pointing out the fact that I do NOT know how each maker cuts their pattern, until I actually have one, and compared it to another jacket I have from another maker and so on.
So in this case, the chicken can only come after the egg. Trying to tell the maker how to cut his pattern is not relevant to me as a buyer.

I prefer FREE EXCHANGE or RETURN. But not a lot of maker does this. And I think this should NOT be the buyers' responsibility.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Totally, no more cxl leathers for me anymore, going to choose one of their stock leathers like a 2oz steer or the Masaye. I love my car coat, but the stiffness makes it a chore. Perhaps I'm not man enough for those types of leather.

I don't think CXL type leather is good for buttons.

But heavy leather shouldn't be a chore if the pattern is right. I want to defend JL because every JL pattern I've got distribute weight well and moves well. But I don't have a car coat pattern from them.

You're in San Fran right? Best to just hit their shop and try in person. They take returns from what I read in other posts. And free alterations. Customer satisfaction is their thing.

 

[unhatted]

@unhatted glad to see your jacket turned out good! The fit looks good and I don't think the minor issues you have on the jacket are that bad at all!

Any funky smell with the goat? Seems to be a jacket to jacket issue.

Almost disappointingly unfunky. Nothing but a very mild leather smell. However my kid has just tested positive for covid (again) so maybe you shouldn’t put too much faith in my sense of smell right now!

 

[MrProper]

I prefer FREE EXCHANGE or RETURN. But not a lot of maker does this.

Yes, that would be the best. And with OTR, that often works, too. With made2measure I don't know that at all. In my opinion, this is also aggravated by the fact that many things are a matter of taste. If I give my body measurements and the manufacturer produces a bag and claims that his jackets have to be like this, then I have nothing to gain from a return, because I want a jacket
Anyway, since everyone has certainly his personal preference.
I prefer to trust me than others and have so far not gone badly.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Yes, that would be the best. And with OTR, that often works, too. With made2measure I don't know that at all. In my opinion, this is also aggravated by the fact that many things are a matter of taste. If I give my body measurements and the manufacturer produces a bag and claims that his jackets have to be like this, then I have nothing to gain from a return, because I want a jacket
Anyway, since everyone has certainly his personal preference.
I prefer to trust me than others and have so far not gone badly.

I get it, you want to get what you paid for, exactly how you like it. We all do.

But while this worked for you it didn't work for me and if we go back this thread far back enough didn't work for many others as well.

How many has unsatisfactory pattern experience with Vanson? Johnson? Goodwear? Lewis? The list could go on. There were a lot of stitching/finishing attacks on these brands. But does anyone with any of these jacket do not like their pattern?

Just trying to bring attention to the core pattern situation, has nothing to do with how individual specs their own jackets. But everything to do with the actual pattern block the custom specs are based on. Better the base building block, better the results for all.

 

[Rugby]

I am NOT arguing on how you spec your jacket.

Only pointing out the fact that I do NOT know how each maker cuts their pattern, until I actually have one, and compared it to another jacket I have from another maker and so on.
So in this case, the chicken can only come after the egg. Trying to tell the maker how to cut his pattern is not relevant to me as a buyer.

I prefer FREE EXCHANGE or RETURN. But not a lot of maker does this. And I think this should NOT be the buyers' responsibility.

JL are good with owning their mistakes and provide free adjustments to custom made-to-measure jackets.
@Canuck Panda do you have any information on how Masaye HH compares to horween vermont?

 

[Aloysius]

Masaye isn't the 10oz belt leather Canuck had a jacket made from, is it?

 

[handymike]

No, it is the beautiful stuff that @Jin431 had JL use for a jacket. Unfortunately it shrunk after he got caught in the rain. The same happened to @JCSD.

 

[Canuck Panda]

JL are good with owning their mistakes and provide free adjustments to custom made-to-measure jackets.
@Canuck Panda do you have any information on how Masaye HH compares to horween vermont?

I don’t have the Masaye. There are reports that it shrinks when wet.
I do have the Vermont. It’s very stable and very soft. But it’s on the thinner side, about 1.1mm. I’ve seen thicker ones. Best to check with JL. The regular Vermont would be same thickness as your 5Star horsehide.

Masaye isn't the 10oz belt leather Canuck had a jacket made from, is it?

No. the thickest jacket to date still belongs to HH. He has two 6oz/7oz Horween 5stars.

 

[Aloysius]

I don’t have the Masaye. There are reports that it shrinks when wet.
I do have the Vermont. It’s very stable and very soft. But it’s on the thinner side, about 1.1mm. I’ve seen thicker ones. Best to check with JL. The regular Vermont would be same thickness as your 5Star horsehide.


No. the thickest jacket to date still belongs to HH. He has two 6oz/7oz Horween 5stars.

I am trying to remember the beautiful bag leather you had a jacket made from.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I am trying to remember the beautiful bag leather you had a jacket made from.

That was solid Latigo type leather. It was actually really good leather. I should’ve just sent the Vanson to copy in that and I’ll know for sure.. Just my theory from cross comparison with others.

 

[TheDonEffect]

I think I've read somewhere on this forum that Masaye shrinks. Is that true? How does it compare to Horween Vermont HH?

Both of those leathers are easy wearing vs CXL, CHL, etc, with the edge going to Masaye although the Horween I think has a tad more character.

Jin and I think Riu? had Masaye that shrank with water, but I've seen them made into bike jackets and not shrink in rain, JL continues to offer it as it's becoming a popular option beyond FL and fwiw had only two come back for shrinkage (taken with a grain of salt since that's per JL). The way I see it, I don't wear leather in rain and it doesn't rain much here anyway, and they continue to offer it so if there was an issue it must have been corrected. The leather checks most of my boxes, and JL is great to work with so I have no reservations. The only reason why I haven't pulled the trigger yet is because they said they may have some more offerings coming down the pipeline that I may be interested in. If the Masaye was teacore or a dark seal I would've pulled the trigger already.

I don't think CXL type leather is good for buttons.

But heavy leather shouldn't be a chore if the pattern is right. I want to defend JL because every JL pattern I've got distribute weight well and moves well. But I don't have a car coat pattern from them.

You're in San Fran right? Best to just hit their shop and try in person. They take returns from what I read in other posts. And free alterations. Customer satisfaction is their thing.

100%. Let me clarify, the chore aspect I was referring to is absolutely about the CXL leather and not the construction/pattern of the jacket, in fact JL's pattern is the only reason why I still wear the damn thing, lol. CXL to me is pretty much cardboard, like heavy raw denim, and I'm sorry neither are comfortable unless you're down to no body fat since nothing shifts around as you move. If that makes me less of a man, then so be it, but I like comfort, I'll wear armor if I need armor.

JL's patterns are magical, the comfort is immediately apparent when you put them on. I think alot of people have the same experience with Vanson, and lo and behold both JL and Vanson butter their bread by making jackets for people who actually use their jackets beyond posing for the gram. It's why I got two more in the pipeline.

Btw, you're really well versed in all this, I think I remember you mentioning what the Masaye leather is or which tannery makes it, so perhaps you could shed some insight if that leather has a tendency of shrinkage?

 

[TheDonEffect]

I get it, you want to get what you paid for, exactly how you like it. We all do.

But while this worked for you it didn't work for me and if we go back this thread far back enough didn't work for many others as well.

How many has unsatisfactory pattern experience with Vanson? Johnson? Goodwear? Lewis? The list could go on. There were a lot of stitching/finishing attacks on these brands. But does anyone with any of these jacket do not like their pattern?

Just trying to bring attention to the core pattern situation, has nothing to do with how individual specs their own jackets. But everything to do with the actual pattern block the custom specs are based on. Better the base building block, better the results for all.

Agreed. I used to think here's a style, here's my dimensions, make me a jacket. But there is some level of engineering that goes into a jacket that makes it more comfortable/functional. For instance, my 5* Cossack with the CHL, the interior collar behind your neck would not lay flat because of the unwieldly CHL. So the edge with a seam kept rubbing against my neck. The interior leather placket would not lay flat, so when the jacket was open that edge kept catching on my tender chest bits. And the jacket seemed to want to the distribute its weight right on my lats next to my neck, and the biswing back was useless since the flap opening was so small. I could bring my arms together and the opening would barely even open. I didn't want it just for decoration.

With all that said, it was a beautifully made jacket, would make alot of makers double or even triple its price blush.

Pretty hard to beat the makers who make jackets regularly for people who actually use them.

 

[navetsea]

pattern making ruler is kinda curvy, I think it is also matter when connecting dots of measurement points whether they use the curvier part or the straighter part of that ruler let say the front panel from P2P to waist, it would be a different fit and silhouette when they use the curvy part it would taper higher and show more hourglass look than if the dots is connected with the straighter line.

 

[ojaw]

Both of those leathers are easy wearing vs CXL, CHL, etc, with the edge going to Masaye although the Horween I think has a tad more character.

Jin and I think Riu? had Masaye that shrank with water, but I've seen them made into bike jackets and not shrink in rain, JL continues to offer it as it's becoming a popular option beyond FL and fwiw had only two come back for shrinkage (taken with a grain of salt since that's per JL). The way I see it, I don't wear leather in rain and it doesn't rain much here anyway, and they continue to offer it so if there was an issue it must have been corrected. The leather checks most of my boxes, and JL is great to work with so I have no reservations. The only reason why I haven't pulled the trigger yet is because they said they may have some more offerings coming down the pipeline that I may be interested in. If the Masaye was teacore or a dark seal I would've pulled the trigger already.



100%. Let me clarify, the chore aspect I was referring to is absolutely about the CXL leather and not the construction/pattern of the jacket, in fact JL's pattern is the only reason why I still wear the damn thing, lol. CXL to me is pretty much cardboard, like heavy raw denim, and I'm sorry neither are comfortable unless you're down to no body fat since nothing shifts around as you move. If that makes me less of a man, then so be it, but I like comfort, I'll wear armor if I need armor.

JL's patterns are magical, the comfort is immediately apparent when you put them on. I think alot of people have the same experience with Vanson, and lo and behold both JL and Vanson butter their bread by making jackets for people who actually use their jackets beyond posing for the gram. It's why I got two more in the pipeline.

Btw, you're really well versed in all this, I think I remember you mentioning what the Masaye leather is or which tannery makes it, so perhaps you could shed some insight if that leather has a tendency of shrinkage?

Sorry for the aside, but how does one start a jacket project with Johnson as their website is still shite?

 

[Aloysius]

Sorry for the aside, but how does one start a jacket project with Johnson as their website is still shite?

Call them or email them? Clearly there's a lot that can be done long distance given Panda's orders.

I'm planning to visit when I end up moving there.

 

[ojaw]

Call them or email them? Clearly there's a lot that can be done long distance given Panda's orders.

I'm planning to visit when I end up moving there.

Thanks, just wondering if there’s one way that’s more acceptable to them - I’ll pursue this in a more appropriate thread.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Edit 4/13/22: Please ignore this post. I had a Jerry Mcguire moment last night and measured all my jackets and now I am mind fucked. Nothing is as it seems or as I had thought. Back to square one. Return to the source.

Pattern Proposal: I will send you my Highwayman for free if you promise to send it to Shawn at your cost sometimes this year, and use it as a base to make your next 5star jacket, and share results. Westcoast zip codes only, I'm trying to keep the shipping under 50 bucks. It cost me 150 to ship it (from YVR) to Shawn, and I would like to see a copy before I make a copy of it. I ask this because I want a sure thing for 450. And everyone wins if you are already planning a 5Star jacket, the extra shipping cost is 100 for you, but you also get a free jacket to ride with for a while before it helps you make your sure thing jacket for 500 total, less if you don't use horsehide.
And please show interest in the new 2mm horsehide. If more people asked for it maybe Shawn will figure the numbers out to make it work.
PM me if you're interested.

5Star 46 vs Highwayman 44

The sizes are almost identical, except length. But panels are cut differently, but the overall is still similar enough that it's hard to mess up.
The HWYMan is 1" wider in the back than the front, the 5Star is very flat, no wrap around. HWYMan has actual functional action back; has angled shoulder slope that translate to smaller armhole and better weight distribution fit; has better sleeve attachment for forward and sideways reach. The 5Star now is too big and too small at the same time and restrictive. The Highwayman is better in every way except leather, it's crappy leather.
This can be the base for half belt, cossack and of course moto jacket. The side corsets can be deleted and be replace with belt cinch, or stay plain, and can taper in for the fitter guys. The half belt would be right on top of the kidney panel. Many other brands already interchange their half belt and moto pattern, same back base different front. The possibilities are endless!

 

[Hh121]

Great post @Canuck Panda
I don't think making sure their jacket has good pattern is a priority for 5star company, look at those dummies in FB group showing horrible fit photos (most are military jacket)who probably never handled a single jacket from premier maker, those people I believe are major customers of 5star.

My custom order has been postponed for more than one month, while I keep seeing the new jacket that based on their current pattern pops out in here, you can see their priority.

I will never order jacket based on stock pattern, instead I pay extra for custom order.

Having said that, I appreciate Shawn and his team for outstanding work on my two heavyweight CXL jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

@Canuck Panda I think this is a generous offer, but if you are to do it, it shouldn't be a Highwayman.

Five Star only got its enthusiast audience because Ken discovered Shawn and highlighted his work on VLJ.

At one point (they don't do this anymore), Five Star was using Aero product names and designs, despite this.

I think it would be in poor taste to send an original Ken design. Much better to send a vintage jacket. It would cost as much as your postage of the Highwayman.