I ordered it in 1.3mm as well; I really liked the thickness (feels like 1.5mm!) and grain texture on Aero's goatskin, took a look at MoFo's A-2 and it looks like buffalo might fit the bill. Shawn said that hide was stiffer than goat but still very supple.
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Five Star Leather Jackets
- Thread starter TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead
- Start date
amazing jackets you got there. Love to see this. Thanks for posting some of your projects with 5*
So my fitment jacket is ready and going to be shipped out to me. Hopefully I can make some good choices with adjustments and get a great leather jacket. Still thinking between 2mm cow or premium goat.
So far only thing I will be asking him to change will be the collar and I will try to get more detailed on that when it comes in because from these photos it looks a little .
So far only thing I will be asking him to change will be the collar and I will try to get more detailed on that when it comes in because from these photos it looks a little .
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Canuck Panda
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OK. I got the jacket. Long review. Jacket photos first. And an interesting question towards the end.
Horween's Essex is a naked hide and has everything. Smooth grain, pebble grain, "scrotum" grains, stretch marks, mane marks, vein marks. And soft like butter. I got mine from Maverick Leather in Oregon. I have seen JL jackets in this leather, not sure if that's their regular offering. But more makers could consider this leather. It's pretty cool.
Some fit pics. Shawn is spot on with every measurement I gave him. I think this is doable when the edges are skived before the top stitch. Will cover this topic further down.
This is not a repro. More a McJacket smashed together with three 30s design. From different sides of the Atlantic.
This is what I like about 5Star the most. The full on custom design jacket, without breaking the bank.
OK. Some numbers and my thoughts about 5Star before getting into the skive edge thing.
EDITED 9/16 7:20pm
Shawn’s price for custom jacket without leather is 200 for this one. He emailed me. So total is 650. This changes things in comparison to Cidu jacket which is not custom. Will post more when I get the jacket.
Cost. Shawn's custom jacket price is the same 200, plus 200 for the leather bought at Maverick, plus 200 for shipping to Pakistan. Even I'd declared 5 dollars for value, there was still some duty on Shawn's end when he received the leather. He did not charge me. Since I live in Vancouver, I paid about 50 bucks to DHL for customs when the jacket arrives. So my total cost for a custom leather jacket using Horween HH is 800 US dollars. A quarter of that went to shipping. Funny fact about shipping, it would only cost fraction more to ship more leather for 5 jackets. So doing one jacket at a time for shipping isn't the most economical.
Quality: I keep saying this, but I cannot find the difference between Pakistan craftsmanship versus UK / US craftsmanship. The inequalities in the wages does not directly impact the quality of craftsmanship. Sewing is still just sewing.
Leather Option / Brand: This is something I would encourage Shawn to focus his growth on. Right now he does not offer nicer leather other than the CHL which is still in trial stages. The choice of leather ties directly to the growth of his brand and also the potential increase of resale value for the customer. It's really a win win situation for all in the long term. Upgraded leather options will upgrade the brand image and eventually will result in upgraded resale value for the customer.
Now, onto the most interesting thing I found out by accident - Skived or unskived edges:
This 5Star jacket uses the skived edges method. The edges are skived down about 1/3 and glue is used before sewn together.
This SB jacket (or any Aero jacket) is made without skived edges and without glue:
I noticed the difference by accident only because I know the leather I sent Shawn was super thick. I played with it before I sent them to him, so I knew exactly what it was. By the time the jacket came back, it didn't feel as thick. But after using the caliper to measure it still is thick.
BUT ALL THE EDGES FELT THIN. Which lead to this investigation.
From this accidental discovery, I've found that thinner leather, when unskived, will make the jacket feel a lot thicker. And vice versa for thick leather. And I went to look at all the brands I have and I found that:
Aero, SB, FL, Lewis, Vanson, GW = 100% Unskived method.
JL, LW, Himel = some parts felt like it was skived. Mostly unskived.
5Star, and Italian overpriced brands like Prada, is fully skived.
5Star jacket owners:
Do you wish for skived or unskived edges?
I just hemmed my fast fashion pants myself recently, and my little Singer had trouble sewing through the thick folded area. I ended up using the hand crank on the side and pulling the fabric to get it to go over. It had a lot to do with the height of my presser foot? Anyone with more sewing experiences please chime in. Would special machine be needed for thicker sewing?
Finally, without making this post into a skive vs unskived battle, let's focus on the most important 5Star issue here:
Please ask Shawn for better leather!
Veg tan, soft temper, full grain, naked, aniline!
Horween's Essex is a naked hide and has everything. Smooth grain, pebble grain, "scrotum" grains, stretch marks, mane marks, vein marks. And soft like butter. I got mine from Maverick Leather in Oregon. I have seen JL jackets in this leather, not sure if that's their regular offering. But more makers could consider this leather. It's pretty cool.
Some fit pics. Shawn is spot on with every measurement I gave him. I think this is doable when the edges are skived before the top stitch. Will cover this topic further down.
This is not a repro. More a McJacket smashed together with three 30s design. From different sides of the Atlantic.
This is what I like about 5Star the most. The full on custom design jacket, without breaking the bank.
OK. Some numbers and my thoughts about 5Star before getting into the skive edge thing.
EDITED 9/16 7:20pm
Shawn’s price for custom jacket without leather is 200 for this one. He emailed me. So total is 650. This changes things in comparison to Cidu jacket which is not custom. Will post more when I get the jacket.
Cost. Shawn's custom jacket price is the same 200, plus 200 for the leather bought at Maverick, plus 200 for shipping to Pakistan. Even I'd declared 5 dollars for value, there was still some duty on Shawn's end when he received the leather. He did not charge me. Since I live in Vancouver, I paid about 50 bucks to DHL for customs when the jacket arrives. So my total cost for a custom leather jacket using Horween HH is 800 US dollars. A quarter of that went to shipping. Funny fact about shipping, it would only cost fraction more to ship more leather for 5 jackets. So doing one jacket at a time for shipping isn't the most economical.
Quality: I keep saying this, but I cannot find the difference between Pakistan craftsmanship versus UK / US craftsmanship. The inequalities in the wages does not directly impact the quality of craftsmanship. Sewing is still just sewing.
Leather Option / Brand: This is something I would encourage Shawn to focus his growth on. Right now he does not offer nicer leather other than the CHL which is still in trial stages. The choice of leather ties directly to the growth of his brand and also the potential increase of resale value for the customer. It's really a win win situation for all in the long term. Upgraded leather options will upgrade the brand image and eventually will result in upgraded resale value for the customer.
Now, onto the most interesting thing I found out by accident - Skived or unskived edges:
This 5Star jacket uses the skived edges method. The edges are skived down about 1/3 and glue is used before sewn together.
I noticed the difference by accident only because I know the leather I sent Shawn was super thick. I played with it before I sent them to him, so I knew exactly what it was. By the time the jacket came back, it didn't feel as thick. But after using the caliper to measure it still is thick.
BUT ALL THE EDGES FELT THIN. Which lead to this investigation.
From this accidental discovery, I've found that thinner leather, when unskived, will make the jacket feel a lot thicker. And vice versa for thick leather. And I went to look at all the brands I have and I found that:
Aero, SB, FL, Lewis, Vanson, GW = 100% Unskived method.
JL, LW, Himel = some parts felt like it was skived. Mostly unskived.
5Star, and Italian overpriced brands like Prada, is fully skived.
5Star jacket owners:
Do you wish for skived or unskived edges?
I just hemmed my fast fashion pants myself recently, and my little Singer had trouble sewing through the thick folded area. I ended up using the hand crank on the side and pulling the fabric to get it to go over. It had a lot to do with the height of my presser foot? Anyone with more sewing experiences please chime in. Would special machine be needed for thicker sewing?
Finally, without making this post into a skive vs unskived battle, let's focus on the most important 5Star issue here:
Please ask Shawn for better leather!
Veg tan, soft temper, full grain, naked, aniline!
Last edited:
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TheDonEffect
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Very educational post. I will echo that the workmanship of at least my jacket was great, and like you I found no discernible difference between the workmanship of this jacket vs really any jacket from anywhere else other than some outlier makers that go out of their way so they can say things like a hundred stitches per inch or whatever. More specifically, sure I found an "issue" here and there, but I could find "issues" with just about every jacket I've handled, so all in all craftsmanship/workmanship should not be in question here.
Interesting with how the pricing ended up being, I remember talking with H121 about his experience and I remember it being slightly cheaper, maybe a hundred or two, and that was factoring in $400 for the leather itself IIRC. $350 seems much more in line with labor shipping and material (liner, zips, buttons, thread, etc) costs, I remember that past discussion being something really low like $20.
I agree with you in that I hope they offer more interesting leather choices, but I wouldn't blame Shawn for not going fully into that route, at least in the near future since he gains a good cost advantage by sourcing/making his own leather, since he'll charge you 350 and you supply your own vs 350 for a full jacket.
And this is not a knock on 5* as it is a practical commentary of the market, but I would think people would have a hard time paying 800+ for a 5* Horween CXL jacket vs say an Aero, and I think Shawn is aware of that. Sure, Shawn could do one off customs which will draw certain folks, but the market can't be that big, most consumers will want to look at a catalog, choose a style and leather, and then make some small changes and alterations, ie the Aero model, and then want some level of satisfaction guarantee.
Having now seen the CHL in person, I am excited to see what other leathers Shawn can concoct, perhaps replicate your Essex leather for instance. I will say that his CHL leather is already better looking than the ubiquitous stock leathers I've seen. Having Horween, Shinki, etc in the lineup already drives up the base cost notably that suddenly they're now directly competing with more established brands. I'm not saying he can't, but from a business stand point I would think he'd be better off leveraging his tannery and offering nice leathers but maintaining his price point, and then perhaps make his way upmarket.
The real question is how do you differentiate "scrotum" grain and pebble grain? And what exactly is scrotum grain?
Texture from dragging them in the snow.
Man
o man I always love reading your posts. So much information and different things that I did not even think about and all the pictures that put it all together. Keep at it, keep making those custom jackets and keep on posting I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying it.
TheDonEffect
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The real question is…What is scroto-pebble. Can they exist in peaceful harmony. You need to consult the archives.
Scroto
Pebble
Canuck Panda
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Updated the price. Got an email from Shawn just now when I asked for the invoice. I just assumed the same price but it’s not.
This actually start to make things more interesting now. I will dig into this when the Cidu comes in.
The scortum grains are cool. Maybe a more elegant word will arise sooner or later. Let’s see some pics of that:
Maverick Leather sold it as “the leather looked like it came from north of the wall”.
just saw Ton312 photos. It turned out the older it gets, the more pronounced the scortum grain becomes. I’m sorry. On my second glass now. Scortum grain are the best, in leather jacket!
This actually start to make things more interesting now. I will dig into this when the Cidu comes in.
The scortum grains are cool. Maybe a more elegant word will arise sooner or later. Let’s see some pics of that:
Maverick Leather sold it as “the leather looked like it came from north of the wall”.
just saw Ton312 photos. It turned out the older it gets, the more pronounced the scortum grain becomes. I’m sorry. On my second glass now. Scortum grain are the best, in leather jacket!
Bahabp100
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The price was updated because you supplied your own leather .? What was the adjustment ? Thanks
@Canuck Panda, you hadn’t mentioned the Reb_bel jacket was a Cidu... I’m really looking forward to your thoughts now.
Harris HTM
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it shrinks when cold.
Makes sens. I think more of us need to start asking makers for "Scroto grain", see if we can get that term accepted worldwide!
"Hi Stuart, i am looking for some thick scroto grain, what do you think is best? Moose, deer or horse hide?"
This can only go well...
Harris HTM
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Canuck Panda
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That's right. If you supplied the leather like I did, the cost is 200 dollars. But check with Shawn first before sending the material. Customs works differently on that side of the world.
I assumed it's a Cidu aka Pineal Jet Leather (Factory name, also on instagram). The green horse mulholland copy is the only jacket I haven't found on Aliexpress yet, along with that Kudu Tenjin copy on his Instagram page. Most of the others are available on Aliexpress for less. There isn't a lot of transparency on these jackets, the who, what, where. I'll post whatever I can find out on your Cidu jacket thread which I just found out from google. Lol!
.IMO this is the best 5* jacket so far…
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