Finger Wave vs. permanent wave.

[BelowyourBeauty]

I have been inquiring thru several salons about doing a permanent wave. One lady told me that its not best to do a permanent wave, she said it was best to do it in a finger wave (not permenant) She also said there was no such thing as a permenant finger wave. I"m absolutely confused because I ran into another lady who told me that her daughter does permanent waves. This is done in an ethnic salon that specializes this type of style. I see the lady all the time, and she always has some kind finger wave done to her hair..mind you her hair is different than mine.

Question: Is there such a thing as a permenant wave? I recently found this article.

http://www.revampvintage.com/30sbrushcurling.html

Any info or sites would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jitterbugdoll]

I believe that when women had permanent waves put into their hair, they were simply getting perms to help make setting their hair easier. They still had to set their hair to achieve the correct look (via pin curls or finger waves), but if they had very straight hair or hair that did not hold curl well, a perm would help to shape their hair for longer periods of time. Even women with naturally curly hair set their hair for the same reason. Hairstyles of the 1930s-40s are quite structured and were achieved very deliberately.

Do you color you hair? If you do, you should avoid a perm like the plague! The double processing will leave you with frizz (I'd love to have a perm but my hair has a weave in it, and my hairdresser refuses to do one.) And actually, my hairdresser wouldn't perm my hair even if I didn't color it--he's insistent that I would not be happy with the results. I've been taking his word for it

How experienced are you with setting your hair? A cold set (wet) can last 2-3 days, depending on your hair type. I find that I can get two days wear out of mine, but because I have such light blonde hair it doesn’t look as fresh the second day. I usually wash and set my hair every evening. It takes a bit of time but the end results are worth it!

 

[BelowyourBeauty]

I believe that when women had permanent waves put into their hair, they were simply getting perms to help make setting their hair easier. They still had to set their hair to achieve the correct look (via pin curls or finger waves), but if they had very straight hair or hair that did not hold curl well, a perm would help to shape their hair for longer periods of time. Even women with naturally curly hair set their hair for the same reason. Hairstyles of the 1930s-40s are quite structured and were achieved very deliberately.

Do you color you hair? If you do, you should avoid a perm like the plague! The double processing will leave you with frizz (I'd love to have a perm but my hair has a weave in it, and my hairdresser refuses to do one.) And actually, my hairdresser wouldn't perm my hair even if I didn't color it--he's insistent that I would not be happy with the results. I've been taking his word for it

How experienced are you with setting your hair? A cold set (wet) can last 2-3 days, depending on your hair type. I find that I can get two days wear out of mine, but because I have such light blonde hair it doesn’t look as fresh the second day. I usually wash and set my hair every evening. It takes a bit of time but the end results are worth it!

I haven't colored my hair in over a year. My experience in hair is average....needs lots of practice. I did a perm a long time ago, and the curls where really tight so there wasnt much room to do anything but leave the hair curly. Getting my hair done every week can be expensive. I was just thinking if i had some kind of light wave into my hair then I would have an easier way to do my hair.

I'm going to visit the lady at the salon later this week...so I will let you know what happens.

 

[MissTayva]

A permanent wave is just the long name for what we all know as a "perm".
The hair is set on rods and a waving/neutralizing solution is applied.

I dunno, perms are iffy. I suggest not even doing one because results are never consistent. Your hair type, the condition its in, medication you take, products you use (in the case of buildup) can all affect the way the perm takes. It is impossible to get the wave pattern you want by just a perm alone. Most of the people who get them (old ladies in particular) do so just so there is some sort of curl and chemical process on the hair, which makes styling easier and last longer.

As far as these "ethnic" perms looking like fingerwaves... it's hard to explain, but the hair type of black people is a lot different than, well, everyone... and they use different products on their hair. I've actually seen these women get fingerwaves essentialy "permed" into their hair... however, again, different hair type. The hair is usually very short, and not to mention, afro-american hair will mold to any shape on its own... whereas a perm like that would not work on any of us caucasians!

If it's staying power you are desiring, coloring your hair may be the solution. Chemically processed hair is easier to style as opposed to virgin hair. The cuticle on a chemically processed hair shaft (which is composed of these little things that look like scales) are partially open/stand up a bit, which in turn causes the hair strands to "stick" to each other in a sense. The cuticle is rather compact on virgin (non-processed) hair, which makes it slide right past eachother.

As far as the article you found... I think the reference to permanent waving has to do with the size of the sections of hair. When doing a permanent wave, the hair sections have to be a specific size so that it fits correctly on the rod. Trust me, in those days, you would know if a permanent wave was involved. Have you ever seen the photographs of the monstrous machines they used then? The one on that diagram is a wet set.

I shouldn't even be mentioning this because it's a dumb idea... but there is a such thing as a pincurl perm. However, those end up really frizzy-- the curl is always tighter at the bottom and the hair is more apt to be over processed. With a modern perm, the rods are vented to allow both air and solution through, and cotton is strategically placed to absorb excess solution (which can burn the scalp, overprocess hair, etc.)

I say if you do decide to go ahead with the perm thing, try a body wave. It is much easier to straighten if you dislike it.

Also, ladies... now they make perms specially formulated for those of us who color our hair (ISO is one really good brand) I have used those quite a bit and never have had any problems as far as my clients having fuzzy, mushy hair! Surprisingly, I have found that the colored hair takes the perm a bit better.

 

[BelowyourBeauty]

A permanent wave is just the long name for what we all know as a "perm".
The hair is set on rods and a waving/neutralizing solution is applied.

I dunno, perms are iffy. I suggest not even doing one because results are never consistent. Your hair type, the condition its in, medication you take, products you use (in the case of buildup) can all affect the way the perm takes. It is impossible to get the wave pattern you want by just a perm alone. Most of the people who get them (old ladies in particular) do so just so there is some sort of curl and chemical process on the hair, which makes styling easier and last longer.

As far as these "ethnic" perms looking like fingerwaves... it's hard to explain, but the hair type of black people is a lot different than, well, everyone... and they use different products on their hair. I've actually seen these women get fingerwaves essentialy "permed" into their hair... however, again, different hair type. The hair is usually very short, and not to mention, afro-american hair will mold to any shape on its own... whereas a perm like that would not work on any of us caucasians!

If it's staying power you are desiring, coloring your hair may be the solution. Chemically processed hair is easier to style as opposed to virgin hair. The cuticle on a chemically processed hair shaft (which is composed of these little things that look like scales) are partially open/stand up a bit, which in turn causes the hair strands to "stick" to each other in a sense. The cuticle is rather compact on virgin (non-processed) hair, which makes it slide right past eachother.

I shouldn't even be mentioning this because it's a dumb idea... but there is a such thing as a pincurl perm. However, those end up really frizzy-- the curl is always tighter at the bottom and the hair is more apt to be over processed. With a modern perm, the rods are vented to allow both air and solution through, and cotton is strategically placed to absorb excess solution (which can burn the scalp, overprocess hair, etc.)

I say if you do decide to go ahead with the perm thing, try a body wave. It is much easier to straighten if you dislike it.

Wow....I dont know where to start, but thank you for sharing this. My girlfriend went to Paul Mitchell school, and I've read some of the literature that explains some of these styles.

I think I'm afraid of going to an ethnic salon, chances are they will use some harsh chemicals on my hair... You imagine....my hair would end up being fried!

I guess I can go to the beauty salon and get it done on a weekly basis until I can do it on my own.



Well I will post later this week and tell you ladies what happen and the results too

thanks again
Lola

 

[BelowyourBeauty]

As far as the article you found... I think the reference to permanent waving has to do with the size of the sections of hair. When doing a permanent wave, the hair sections have to be a specific size so that it fits correctly on the rod. Trust me, in those days, you would know if a permanent wave was involved. Have you ever seen the photographs of the monstrous machines they used then? The one on that diagram is a wet set.

Ohh heres a site that shows those monstrous machines...

http://www.hairrific.com/perm2.htm#perm1

I used to work at a vintage store and my boss had one of those sitting in the middle of the store. It actually still worked.

 

[ITG]

Oh my that looks painful! I'll have to admit I've never seen one of those machines. That first drawing makes me think of Medusa!

 

[MissTayva]

Oh my that looks painful! I'll have to admit I've never seen one of those machines. That first drawing makes me think of Medusa!

I actually owned one of those a few years ago! I has plans of opening a salon and was collecting vintage hairdressing implements, machines, etc. I couldn't imagine actually using one of those things!

 

[rubyredlocks]

A few salons are also renaming the technique of perming as well as expanding on the original idea.
Every salon may have their own unique technique and name.
Curls have been making a comeback in the last year or so.Most salons are re-educating themselves on perms as they expect a renewed interest in the next few years.
The salon I work at has a technique called a demi-texture.
It is rolled on bender rods(remember from the 80s) of various sizes in the direction that you would like your hair to lay.It uses a mild solution that works very fast,takes half the time of a perm.It can give you anything from a nice little kick to very soft body.It lasts about 6 to 8 weeks.
I usually do not recommend such modern techniques to my vintage-minded gals,but I had one and loved the results.My hair held a dry curling iron set for days and when left to dry naturally it had a soft beachy wave to it.
Here's a pic of what it looked like set with a curling iron(I'm in the middle):
http://shoepants.com/portfolio.html

Let me know if you're interested and I can ask if we have any support salons in your area that will know this technique.

 

[Lauren]

I did get a permenant wave set by my friend who was attending cosmotology school and it fell out in like a week. Then she did it again a month later, and it fell out in like a month. Now my hair is not nearly as nice and soft as it once was. I personally don't recommend it. I'd rather sleep in pincurls and rag curls than deal with crunchy hair . A permenent wave was made by rolling hair one direction, then on the next row, rolling it the other direction. The same effect can be achieved with pincurls. It won't get you the look of a finger wave, more like the wave veronica lake had.

 

[MissTayva]

A few salons are also renaming the technique of perming as well as expanding on the original idea.
Every salon may have their own unique technique and name.
Curls have been making a comeback in the last year or so.Most salons are re-educating themselves on perms as they expect a renewed interest in the next few years.
The salon I work at has a technique called a demi-texture.
It is rolled on bender rods(remember from the 80s) of various sizes in the direction that you would like your hair to lay.It uses a mild solution that works very fast,takes half the time of a perm.It can give you anything from a nice little kick to very soft body.It lasts about 6 to 8 weeks.
I usually do not recommend such modern techniques to my vintage-minded gals,but I had one and loved the results.My hair held a dry curling iron set for days and when left to dry naturally it had a soft beachy wave to it.
Here's a pic of what it looked like set with a curling iron(I'm in the middle):
http://shoepants.com/portfolio.html

Let me know if you're interested and I can ask if we have any support salons in your area that will know this technique.

Haha, THOSE rods
Actually, I can imagine those working well. I completely forgot that they exist. I tried to forget those with the '80s
No, but I can always remember the curl coming out more uniform and consistent.
Your hair looks cute!

 

[rubyredlocks]

Ah,the 80's fashion flashbacks.I suffer from those myself on occasion.Glad we were able to salvage something useful from that decade.
Of course,I can't complain too much,that is when I discovered the The Stray Cats and have been a fan since.
sadly,I never saw them live.

Thanks for the compliment on my hair.That was my cute girl-next-door phase.

 

[KitschNSink]

it's hard to explain, but the hair type of black people is a lot different than, well, everyone... and they use different products on their hair. I've actually seen these women get fingerwaves essentialy "permed" into their hair.

I have reasonably thick, but definitely caucasian hair. In college I had a couple of black girlfriends who convinced me to try hairspray, etc. that was made for ethnic hair, because what I wanted to achieve were Gilda-like waves and my hair would not hold a curl just because the weight of it. I had hair almost elbow length and at the time i was coming out of either wearing it Brady style parted down the middle because i had given up, or achieving the style that I saw on Homefront with the hair braided on the top/pulled back sort of at the temples and on the side.

I will tell you, the stuff is like magic and I absolutely swore by it. There was no need to "mousse while your hair is wet, dry it, then gel it, then curl it and spray it." all you had to do was curl and spray. Your hair might feel "very moisturized" but it won't LOOK oily or greasy (unless that is what you are absolutely going for). My hair LOOKED very bouncy/supple/soft but it was stiff as a board) I think that is the difference because when you have very coarse hair, you need something super duper moisturizing and powerful to get it to do what you want it to do. (and the other thing is that maybe because of the moisturizers it smells a heckuva lot better than that aquanet "hairspray" smell)

But be warned that when you wake the next morning, your hairstyle will be the same, and it won't look like you slept, OR you will have the most bizarre case of bed head you have seen in your life depending on what you did with your hair style wise the night before. Also be warned if you plan to meet up with a husband/boyfriend/a fella that you think you want to get to know A LOT better, his hands might get stuck in your hair. Ditto a brush so be careful with that LOL

I don't know the brand but it was in a black and gold can or maybe b/silver.

Chris

 

[Lauren]

Speaking of permenent waves... check out what's on Ebay right now...
Vintage Curling Machine

 

[swinggal]

Came across this gem recently
http://www.vividinfinity.com/fingerwave/

Great site where someone has basically copied out a whole chapter of a vintage cosmetology book - you just click through the pages. The information is excellent.