Fine Creek Leather

[jeo]

To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one FCL seam failure (that has been shared multiple times on TFL b[B]y those who dislike FCL[/B])

Editing this post. Just revisited the thread. Sorry, I was not the first person to share the busted seam. @Marc mndt did. Not that it matters I guess.

I was the first person to share that. I'm considering buying a Leon Custom even though sleeves and body may be a little long...

I kind of like to be a contrarian at times. When someone says something is the best, I will gladly point out flaws lol

The Japanese brands are generally regarded by many as the "best". I own a lot of them and they all have flaws. People need to stop defending these brands like they are their children. Nothing is perfect.

Out of all my jackets, my Rainbow Country jacket happens to be the most neatly constructed (i own multiple FWs, an RMC, a RC, a tenjin and TFH on the way!)

 

[red devil]

I agree. I have tried on several FCL jackets and the patterns did not work. I just ordered another (without trying it on). It may be in the Classified section next week if it doesn't fit.

I hope it works out for you!

 

[Superfluous]

I was the first person to share that. I'm considering buying a Leon Custom even though sleeves and body may be a little long...I kind of like to be a contrarian at times. When someone says something is the best, I will gladly point out flaws lol

The Japanese brands are generally regarded by many as the "best". I own a lot of them and they all have flaws. People need to stop defending these brands like they are their children. Nothing is perfect.

Completely agree. There is no "best" brand or country of origin, the Japanese brands are not inherently better, there are plenty of mediocre and downright poorly made Japanese jackets, there are several stellar jacket manufacturers located outside of Japan, no brand has cornered the market on stellar jackets, and "nothing is perfect."

FCL does not deserve to be exalted as superior or the best any more than it deserves to be tarred and feathered.

I hope it works out for you!

Thank you.

 

[jeo]

Tenjin has better patterns overall than these guys, they are made to measure though (not bespoke).

Can you please expand on that? I bought a JS02 used and it says "36" on it and I don't have much knowledge on the brand. Does that mean my jacket was originally made specifically for someone? (my understanding of MTM is that the pattern is the same but with certain measurements adjusted for that individual as opposed to bespoke which would be entirely from scratch...is that correct?)

 

[Marc mndt]

Out of all my jackets, my Rainbow Country jacket happens to be the most neatly constructed (i own multiple FWs, an RMC, a RC, a tenjin and TFH on the way!)

How would you rate Tedi in terms of neatness of construction?

It seems that when we discuss neatness, we somehow always discuss Japanese makers. Personally I think Thedi's stitching is at least at the same level.

It's insane how close to the edge this cuff adjuster was sewn.
(Photocredits to @red devil)

 

[jeo]

How would you rate Tedi in terms of neatness of construction?

Its seems that when we discuss neatness, we somehow always discuss Japanese makers. Personally I think Thedi's stitching is at least at the same level.
View attachment 300110
It's insane how close to the edge this cuff adjuster was sewn.
(Photocredits to @red devil)

I've never owned a Thedi, but from the various photos that I've seen, especially in very high resolution where I can zoom in, they seem to be on par with the best of 'em.

I don't think that only Japanese brands are discussed when people here talk about neatness and quality of construction. Lost Worlds is regarded by many to be on par or exceeding Japanese construction. I used to own one and I can attest to that.

 

[Blackadder]

It’s undeniable that there are brands that are very... polarising on the TFL. How many times one needs to read about how bad FCL is because they cut-off the epaulettes of one out 50 models, the dislike for mismatched panels and what not? Jeez the busted seam posted twice already in 2 pages.

All I have been trying to get across is that I don’t see FCL jackets much differently from RMC, RC or the Flat Head etc. Very nice leather, pretty damn good stitching and details... But apparently for some there seems to be a huge quality differential which I have yet to see explained.

We all have our opinions and different tastes but I think FCL attracts a lot of undeserved negative attention.

That’s all from me. Hope to see more jackets pictures!

Let's not forget the "copyright" issue raised. Both FCL and Addict were receiving negative comments for lack of originality because their whole collections are copies of well known designs of EXISTING brands.
Personally, I think FCL's pattern is indeed off. IMO, FCL is recreating well known designs in a pattern that will appeal to the more fashion minded crowd. Terry's FCL is the same as High Large denim model so that to me does not count as FCL's, it was brought over from the High Large days. During the High Large days, their way of differentiating themselves were to recreate leather denim jackets which is a very niche market since none of the existing Japanese repro companies have a regular type 1 or type 2 leather in their lineup not to mention the Lee Cowboy. Now that they have expanded, they are in direct competition with other established players, so they have to differentiate themselves by tweaking and redesigning well known patterns that would look like the originals but adapted to appeal to or fit a different crowd. That is not the same as RM, FW or Flathead or Addict because they tweaked the patterns mostly for the purpose of the Japanese market such as trimming and shortening to an Asian fit.
There are of course people with different body types who fit into FCL's pattern but that is not to say the pattern on paper or in photo does not look odd. Take for example, 70's Levi's type 3 70505. Those type 3 have extra long sleeves that most people has to roll up but there are of course people who have extra long arms and love them because most other jackets do not fit them.

 

[red devil]

Can you please expand on that? I bought a JS02 used and it says "36" on it and I don't have much knowledge on the brand. Does that mean my jacket was originally made specifically for someone? (my understanding of MTM is that the pattern is the same but with certain measurements adjusted for that individual as opposed to bespoke which would be entirely from scratch...is that correct?)

Unless they have changed recently, they are a made to order company. I ordered mine on the premises, I tried on a size 44 which fit pretty well and they took some notes on what to adjust. So, as you describe, they tweak the pattern for you.

It went in pretty much the same as when I ordered my Lewis Leathers Lightning - in that case it was an adjusted size 42.

The nice part is that Tenjin will do any size, they once told me that they made a jacket for Japanese wrestler. For that one they had to develop a big pattern.

 

[polloelastico]

@BloodEagle
I am putting my money where my mouth is. FCL jacket ordered today. I am MUCH less concerned with the structural integrity of the beautiful stitching, and MUCH more concerned with the fit. Fingers crossed.

@Superfluous

Nice, which one did you order? I am super close to ordering a Richmond, or Hampton if I can find it.

 

[Marc mndt]

The nice part is that Tenjin will do any size, they once told me that they made a jacket for Japanese wrestler. For that one they had to develop a big pattern.

I couldn't resist googling "sumo wrestler leather jacket".

This guy definitely rocks his type 3

 

[jeo]

Unless they have changed recently, they are a made to order company. I ordered mine on the premises, I tried on a size 44 which fit pretty well and they took some notes on what to adjust. So, as you describe, they tweak the pattern for you.

It went in pretty much the same as when I ordered my Lewis Leathers Lightning - in that case it was an adjusted size 42.

The nice part is that Tenjin will do any size, they once told me that they made a jacket for Japanese wrestler. For that one they had to develop a big pattern.

Thanks for elaborating!

This is a brand very seldom discussed. Not too much info on them.

Maybe they do both?? Only saying that because I saw the below video a while ago on youtube and there is a rack of jackets in the store.

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" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[tmitchell59]

This is a great looking jacket. I think we need more FCL reviews here on TFL

Here is one. I am glad to answer questions if anyone has one. Happy to do any pictures you may be interested in.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/fine-creek-virginia-beach.102823/page-2#post-2758519

 

[willyto]

My only concern with certain makers is that the best designs in my opinion do not need any uupdate when it comes to the pattern. In fact I think that most of the time they do a diservice to the jacket altering the pattern and the fit of the jackets.

To me a Motorcycle jacket must be short. A N1 Deck Jacket is longer, an A-1 fits longer, A-2 shorter while a cossack is always longer. Some designs are very well thought, they don't need no one coming to save it.

When some makers start messing with proportions, lenght ad fit of some classicdesigns to accomodate for modern low waist trousers I think they just ruin the jackets.

Some can get away with it but in general I don't like it although in order to reach a bigger audience they do so.

 

[Marc mndt]

a cossack is always longer.

I personally like a cossack better when it's short (2nd one)

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Agreed @Marc mndt I think cossack jackets generally look better short.

 

[JMax]

I couldn't resist googling "sumo wrestler leather jacket".

This guy definitely rocks his type 3
View attachment 300121

And who would tell him otherwise. I could probably use that jacket as a parachute.

 

[Blackadder]

Thanks for elaborating!

This is a brand very seldom discussed. Not too much info on them.

Maybe they do both?? Only saying that because I saw the below video a while ago on youtube and there is a rack of jackets in the store.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The rack of jackets are for display and fitting. You may be able to convince them to sell you a floor model if you are there but not when ordering online. I have been to their booth at the Inazuma Festival and seen a few old (patina) display items on sale but for brand new jackets, those are made to measure. You get a small discount if you order at the Inazuma Fest.

 

[jeo]

The rack of jackets are for display and fitting. You may be able to convince them to sell you a floor model if you are there but not when ordering online. I have been to their booth at the Inazuma Festival and seen a few old (patina) display items on sale but for brand new jackets, those are made to measure. You get a small discount if you order at the Inazuma Fest.

You're a wealth of knowledge! Thanks man!

 

[Blackadder]

My only concern with certain makers is that the best designs in my opinion do not need any uupdate when it comes to the pattern. In fact I think that most of the time they do a diservice to the jacket altering the pattern and the fit of the jackets.

To me a Motorcycle jacket must be short. A N1 Deck Jacket is longer, an A-1 fits longer, A-2 shorter while a cossack is always longer. Some designs are very well thought, they don't need no one coming to save it.

When some makers start messing with proportions, lenght ad fit of some classicdesigns to accomodate for modern low waist trousers I think they just ruin the jackets.

Some can get away with it but in general I don't like it although in order to reach a bigger audience they do so.

Proportions? Yes. Overall length and fit? A bit difficult to say as the 40s, 50s vintage jackets are generally shorter and smaller given the physique of the people living back then. Other than that, I can only say I am accustomed to seeing the established proportions and it would probably take a lot of time for me to get used to a significant change to those.

 

[Superfluous]

To me a Motorcycle jacket must be short.

The operative words in the above statement are "to me." Jacket length is fundamentally and inherently a subjective issue and there is no objectively correct or incorrect length. It is personal preference. I respect your preference and I know you respect mine.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, those of us who do not tuck-in our shirts generally prefer slightly longer jackets so as to minimize the distance between the bottom of the jacket and the bottom of our shirts. Others here usually tuck in their shirts and, for those people, a shorter jacket is often more desirable. Different stokes for different folks.

Height is also an important factor. Some here who endorse vintage dimensions coincidentally are not particularly tall (@Carlos840 being the exception). If I was shorter and could fit into a greater variety of vintage jackets and/or OTR offerings, I might feel differently.

Ultimately, the biggest consideration is . . . drum roll . . . plain old personal preference. Its that simple. What aesthetic do you prefer. No aesthetic is inherently correct or better. Its all personal preference.

My gripe is when someone attempts to establish an absolute, objective benchmark and derides any deviation from their benchmark. Live and let live. Its fine to respectfully state your own preferences, as we both have done here, but we also must respect our varying subjective preferences. Such mutual respect is the foundation of this great community. No one should disparage varying opinions, nor proclaim an objective standard (which simply does not exist). IMHO, some of the sharing of subjective preferences that occurs here occasionally includes subtle disparagement of differing opinions that crosses the line and that detracts from our respectful discourse. I likely am guilty of such transgressions. We all should be mindful of the foregoing.

My only concern with certain makers is that the best designs in my opinion do not need any uupdate when it comes to the pattern. In fact I think that most of the time they do a diservice to the jacket altering the pattern and the fit of the jackets.

Again, your "opinion." I respect your opinion, but completely disagree. I strongly believe that repro manufacturers are, and must be, free to deviate from the precise dimensions of prior models and vary the proportions as they deem appropriate. The dimensions used in 1950 or 1960 are no more superior or "correct" than the measurements used in 2020. They are merely different. Likewise, the manufacturing methods and standards used in 1950 and 1960 and no more "correct" than the substantially different methods used today. Just as one is free to "build a better mousetrap," one is free to build a better (or different) jacket (or at least try). In general, the jackets built today incorporate objectively better leather and improved stitching as compared to 1950-1960 (there are exceptions). Changes to the dimensions are no less appropriate or permissible. Throughout history, clothing manufacturers have endeavored to improve upon pre-existing clothing, including dimensions. But for these improvements, we all would be wearing leaves, loincloths, or togas. Again, there is no reason to proclaim that the manufacturers of 1950-1960 made the perfect product and any deviation necessarily diminishes the product.

I also greatly appreciate the variety and choices that arise from repro manufacturers willing to take chances and deviate from the strict parameters of vintage pieces. Many/most vintage jackets do not fit me -- they are often way too short. My Buco J-100 is the exception. I wish I could fit into a vintage Sears Hercules, but I cannot. If all repro manufacturers refused to deviate from vintage dimensions, I would have very few options. Therefore, I am grateful for those repro manufacturers that deviate from the originals. Some deviations from the originals work well. Some not so much. Either way, I applaud the attempt and appreciate the varied options. TFH jackets have very broad shoulders -- much broader than originals. Although that does not work for me, I nevertheless greatly respect TFH's efforts and their stellar product.

I apologize to the A2 segment that eschew any deviation from the originals. I respect your desire to replicate the originals as closely as possible. I feel no similar desire with moto jackets.

A little mutual respect goes a long way.