Finding Period Old Clothing In Australia Is Impossible

[The Rag And Bone Man]

Hi please let me introduce myself, my name is Chris and have only just registered here even though i have been lurking for a long time.
I really wanted to ask the question, to all the Australian members here, why on earth is it so difficult to find any period clothing from lets say the 1930's up to the 1960's in Australia.
I have always since i can remember had a passion for the 1940's and 50's period the music the clothing, and the whole atmosphere that was created back then, but on arriving in Australia some 20 years ago, i really lost touch with that whole era, and may i say it, lost touch with the dress sense, untill a few years ago when i sat back took a good look at how i was dressing, thongs t shirts and shorts and said to myself, Chris its about time you got back into your old style, and start dressing the way you used to.
I felt i really lost a piece of my soul, hope that does not sound to crazy, but i really felt that the the 40's and 50's was my time, even though i was not born untill 67.
So getting back to my reason for this thread, i decided to try and put myself a small wardrobe of 40's clothing. Thats where i came up with a blank, now one might think surely the op shops here would have a few old suits, well in my time searching i have come up with just a few shirts, its like the old clothing for men here never really existed, unless you are a woman now thats a different story.
I recently had a family member come over from the UK and he very kindly bought me a suit over he found in a charity shop in the Uk, he although not a collector or may i say wise to the 40's look thought he may have a great 40's db suit for me, but on closer inspection after he so kindly bought it all that way turned out to be a beautiful 1970 3 piece Jones Chalk & Dawson bespoke suit from Sackville road London, and fantastic suit it was with all the visual flair of a 40's suit but sadly not to be.
I have scoured all the vinatge shops here over the years, and still nothing, and i really have no idea why, the last few weeks i have visited many vintage, op shops you name it and i've been there, and most say the same thing, Mate suits like that should be found only in museums in Australia.
Not only are old suits impossible to find, try finding a decent old fedora, you would think now old hats with Australia being a hot country surely there would be old hats around, well let me say unless you want one that was made in china, forget looking.
Im at a loss to understand, and i know Australia does not have a huge population compared to say America or the UK where i must add i find most of the original good period clothing/ hats still come from, you would still think there may be a little still to go around, but even though i consider myself to be a thorough searcher and thrifty shop oldtimer still i come up with nothing.
Can any Australians here vouch for this or are there any kind gentlemen or ladies here from Australia please tell me i have been looking in all the wrong places, all these years and that there is a secret stash of old suits and hats in a vintage vault right here in sydney just waiting for me to purchase, so long as i have a secret password.
Any help on finding great clothing shops that may from time to time stock some nice old suits in Australia or even old hats would be greatly appreciated.
My only source at the moment is ebay USA and Uk, and with shipping these days at a record high, its almost a loss cause, so all help within Australia again will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time
Chris

 

[Shangas]

1. Australia is a relatively young, isolated country.

2. There was very little manufacturing of household goods in Australia, including clothing.

3. This lack of productivity causes anything that does exist, to be sold today at vastly inflated prices due to their rarity.

I may be exaggerating here, but I believe those to be the reasons why.

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

Thank you shangas for your reply, thats my reason for posting just so i can get an understanding of what other Australians think about the lack of clothing here.
I see that you reckon there was very little clothes manufacturing here, between those periods, perhaps it just all came from England and America, are there any suit maunufacturers or individual Australian tailors names you may know, that produced quality garments between those periods.
All that i can come up with is perhaps grace brothers, gowings and may be david jones, if they where actually around then.

 

[cookie]

Years ago in the 80s you could pick up beautiful 40s suits at flea markets. Occasionally I have picked up 40s and 50s shoes at op shops etc. I gave Isshi a couple of pairs and he remarked (as someone who knows) at the sensational leather and quality of stitching etc. Since the 80s I have never seen any 40s suits apart from dinner suits. I occasionally see 50s gear. The oldest thing IU have found in a while is a 30s black wool vest in a Salvos. I scratches me 'ead why - I suspect what has not gone to movie studios gets scrapped.

The one that stumps me is the unavailability of vintage hats like Akubras. I suspect they were worn to death and chucked.

 

[Shangas]

Grace Bros. David Jones. Fletcher Jones...I'm not aware of too many other retailers/tailors. Perhaps there are others, but I haven't seen them. Another tailoring firm I've heard of is "Opal" (I have a DB light grey coat made by Opal), but I'm not sure how far back that company goes. I do know it is/was Australian-based, however.

The thing with Australia, and not just with the clothes, but with many things, is that nothing was MADE here. Now I realise some things were - cars, for example. But most things in Australia were imported.

Fridges.
Sewing machines.
Typewriters.
Televisions.
Radios.
Cars.
Watches.
Clocks.

I have no doubt, the majority of clothing was also imported. And most things that were made in Australia, were made from imported parts, anyway.

One example is typewriters. You can go out and you can buy a typewriter from the 30s, which will say "Australian Built" on it. I've seen such machines. And it may be 'Built' in Australia, but it wasn't made here. All the parts were made in the 'States, stuffed in a crate, shipped across the Pacific, and then assembled here.

It's for reasons like this that stuff in Australia is either non-existent, or extremely expensive. We simply never had the manufacturing base, like America or England.

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

Thanks Cookie, i was going to mention dinner suits, tuxedos.. for some strange reason these seem still readily available, at vinnies and salvo's all be it at insane prices, but it makes you wonder why when the basic suits are not.
I picked up one only a few weeks ago on the bay for a whopping 15 bucks, a 3 piece from i think the 20's or 30's.
And found a gem of a db 40's suit made by Timely clothing from the USA, on Etsy, for a great price that i ended up buying, but still my hopes are high for finding the gem in a Sydney store.

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

Thanks again shangas, your imput is greatly appreciated..

 

[lolly_loisides]

Apart from our small population, you need to keep in mind that until the late 40's almost 50% of Australia's primary goods (wool, wheat, hides, food etc) were exported to the UK and in turn, most of Australia's imports were from the UK. It was in the UK's interest that Australia did not have a larger manufacturing base as that would result in loss of revenue from exports to Australia.

There were definitely more retailers than GB's, DJ's & Gowings. Off the top of my head I can think of Farmers, Murdochs, Waltons, Mark Foys and Anthony Hordens and Sons. They were just the larger department stores in Sydney, so there must be lots of others around Australia.

Clothing manufacturers that I can think of are Berlei & Hestia (though I don't think you'll need any of their products ) Tailors such as Zink and Sons that were established in 1895 are still in business.

Rag and Bone Man, I'm not sure where abouts in Aus your'e from, but if you are from Sydney there is a very interesting exhibition at the Sydney Jewish Museum about Jewish postwar migration and it's contribution to the fashion trade in Australia. http://www.sydneyjewishmuseum.com.au/Exhibitions/Current-Exhibitions/Dressing-Sydney

I tend to agree with Cookie, not only about Akubra's, but clothing generally, "I suspect they were worn to death and chucked".

Goodness knows there were lots of Akubras in Sydney, here's a picture in the Domain taken in 1936.

 

[Shangas]

Lolly is right. Australia was mostly a manufacturer/producer of primary goods. You only have to read the advertisements of the time, to see what she means.

Australia sold wheat. Wool. Gold. Iron. Grains. Food. Lumber.

It imported from America, or England, the vast majority of its manufactured goods. That's why clothes, among other things, are so much harder to find here. That's the reason why...

1. Things are so hard to find.
2. They're so expensive, when you manage to track them down.

 

[MikeBravo]

I'm not sure I agree with my good chum Shangas regarding the lack of clothing manufacture in Australia. We once had a thriving textile/clothing/footwear (TCF) industry in Australia. However cheap imports and the removal of protection fo the industry meant the end. Look at Rivers who used to make all their own clothing and footwear in Ballarat, nowadays it's cheap imported crap that doesn't last more than a few months.

The one that stumps me is the unavailability of vintage hats like Akubras. I suspect they were worn to death and chucked.

Hammer, meet nail. Men in Australia haven't really been fashion conscious (refer your comment: "I really lost touch with that whole era, and may i say it, lost touch with the dress sense, untill a few years ago when i sat back took a good look at how i was dressing, thongs t shirts and shorts and said to myself, Chris its about time you got back into your old style, and start dressing the way you used to. Even you fell into the thong and shorts paradigm) They usually wore clothes to death and then chucked them.

The best hope is to find clothes with a vintage feel to them. I often find Fletcher Jones (a once-great Aussie manufacturer, now sadly in receivership) trousers from the 60s and 70s in interesting patterns and colours. My oldest suit is one I dated to around 1958 and that is my oldest find.

 

[lolly_loisides]

...We once had a thriving textile/clothing/footwear (TCF) industry in Australia. However cheap imports and the removal of protection fo the industry meant the end....

Very true.

Not that you can buy any of the clothes, but The Australian Dress Register website has some great photos of mens clothing.

 

[Shangas]

Mike, what is this 'fashion' thing you speak of? It's my experience that most "blokes" in Australia survive on shorts, flip-flops, singlets, T-shirts and ball-caps.

Even in winter.

Apart from a couple of my friends, I can't think of any well-dressed Australian males, outside of those who are in the public light (actors, for example).

 

[MikeBravo]

Mike, what is this 'fashion' thing you speak of? It's my experience that most "blokes" in Australia survive on shorts, flip-flops, singlets, T-shirts and ball-caps.

Even in winter.

Apart from a couple of my friends, I can't think of any well-dressed Australian males, outside of those who are in the public light (actors, for example).

I trust you are including me in that group of well-dressed friends

 

[Shangas]

Of course. But we are sadly a miniscule minority.

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

Very true.

Not that you can buy any of the clothes, but The Australian Dress Register website has some great photos of mens clothing.

Thanks for that.. will be sure to check that out..

 

[Shangas]

If you don't mind my asking, R&BM, where in Australia do you hail from?

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

When was the turning point, when the average male that used to only be seen in a suit tie and hat, suddenly give up on dressing well and said its t shirts and jeans from now on. I mean my father was and always has dressed very well or at least as good has he could with our circumstances, and he is only 65. I used to love the slim fitting suits he used to wear in the 60's looking at all my old photos, perhaps the 1970's changed how men dressed.
With all that polyester, man made fabrics. perhaps men just gave up then.
I really make an effort now to dress smart, and its amazing just how many stares I get, I am sure most look at me like I am from another planet

 

[The Rag And Bone Man]

If you don't mind my asking, R&BM, where in Australia do you hail from?

I live in Sydney, been here nearly 20 years originally from Herefordshire England.

 

[Shangas]

Men's fashion changed MARKEDLY after WWII, for a number of reasons.

The War itself was a BIG factor. SEVERE cloth-rationing meant that old mainstays like three-piece suits, and the various styles of overcoats, which had survived for centuries, were out. There simply wasn't the fabric to waste on such frivolities as waistcoats and extra long overcoats for men. Or, for that matter, double-breasted suits.

And the rationing didn't end when the war did. Rationing in England lasted far longer than the war ever did. I forget exactly when it ended (mid-1950s, I believe), but I seem to recall someone saying somewhere that rationing lasted twice as long the war. Which may be a slight exaggeration, but probably wasn't far off.

When the war ended, wartime fashions had become normal. And things just stayed that way. And changing social/sexual attitudes probably had something to do with it, as well.

For example, in the 20s, women's clothing was rather revealing - short skirts, sleeveless/shortsleeved dresses and coats, etc. That all changed in the 30s with rising conservatism. I suspect something along those lines happened in the postwar period of the 50s and 60s as well.

Relaxation of dress-codes had something to do with it as well. I'll give you an example:

Last year, my cousin got married. I was invited to the wedding. The invite said: "Formal".

I took one look, and I thought: "Blast!".

I sent an email to my aunt, and I asked her: "What do I wear to my cousin's wedding? It says 'formal'".

Now this sounds like a stupid question, right? But let's be honest. These days formal can mean ANYTHING AT ALL. Almost literally. I was prepared to go out and rent, or if possible, even buy, a dinner suit. Full black tie and everything. My aunt messaged me back saying that a suit was fine.

Which was a relief. But it shows you how far we've come. Or fallen. As the case may be. In the "golden era", a suit was considered casualware. If you wore a suit to a black tie event, you would've been asked to leave. These days, wearing a TIE makes you formal.

I dunno...It's a total mess...

 

[lolly_loisides]

I agree with you R&B Man, mens clothing in Australia changed most during the late 60's/70's. I have photographs of my (male) relatives from the 1910's to now & the real change in everyday wear happened from the very late 60's onwards. Before then even if they were dressed casually (postwar photos) they still wore a nice pair of trousers & a collared short sleeved shirt, from about 68 onwards you see jeans and t shirts on the younger members of the family.