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Finally found a "vintage" hat...
- Thread starter tracyam
- Start date
Crazy Price on ADAM
I have an ADAM exactly like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Adam-Fe...ryZ52369QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I got mine for free, from a buddy. It was flat as a pancake when I pulled it out of a plastic bag. Took all of 60 seconds to pop it back into shape. It's like new.
I'm having difficulty dating it though. (I tried the candle light dinner and soft music, wine...)
It does not have the Miller Bros. stamp on the sweatband so it's pre '55. Beyond that I'm just guessing.
I have an ADAM exactly like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Adam-Fe...ryZ52369QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I got mine for free, from a buddy. It was flat as a pancake when I pulled it out of a plastic bag. Took all of 60 seconds to pop it back into shape. It's like new.
I'm having difficulty dating it though. (I tried the candle light dinner and soft music, wine...)
It does not have the Miller Bros. stamp on the sweatband so it's pre '55. Beyond that I'm just guessing.
tracyam
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 100
- Location
- South Carolina
This is all some really great information about my Adam. Thank you all very much.
I had no idea I could get such a cool old hat at an antique store for so little...especially considering how outrageous most everything else was priced in there.
I had no idea I could get such a cool old hat at an antique store for so little...especially considering how outrageous most everything else was priced in there.
Boodles
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 425
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
tracyam
I live in Charlotte but don't know of anyone near here to recommend to clean your Adam hat. What I did with my hats is to take the advice of people on this site and send them to Optimo. Pierce almost certainly does good work also but I don't have any personal experience with his shop. It costs a few bucks to hire Optimo to do the work but you will not be disappointed with the service. As for the phone number, back in the 50's in Charlotte we had numbers like ED-36480 (Edison), FR-12345 (Franklin). I cannot recall when that ceased to exist but it must have been about 1960.
I live in Charlotte but don't know of anyone near here to recommend to clean your Adam hat. What I did with my hats is to take the advice of people on this site and send them to Optimo. Pierce almost certainly does good work also but I don't have any personal experience with his shop. It costs a few bucks to hire Optimo to do the work but you will not be disappointed with the service. As for the phone number, back in the 50's in Charlotte we had numbers like ED-36480 (Edison), FR-12345 (Franklin). I cannot recall when that ceased to exist but it must have been about 1960.
- Messages
- 11,579
- Location
- Covina, Califonia 91722
Telephone Exchange Numbers
If I remember correctly the letters were used into the 1960' and even the 1970's in some places. It was a way to know the general area of a phone number way back when. My parents home in Copiague was just a few blocks east of Amityville on Long Island and their old phone number started with AMityville-4 or AM-4. I remember the AMityville -4 being typed on a piece of paper enclosed in the center of the rotary dialer. In Copiague proper the numbers started with MY-something. In NYC the exchange NAME number was a big deal as it showed if you lived in an upper upper class neighborhood. Nat Sherman had some cigars named after some of the famous exchanges in their cigar line, Also, Gimbels department store had a re-upolstering department that advertised on TV and the jingle had their phone number in it as i recall it was something like JUdson-6-6-three hundred (JU-6-6300).
Exchanges were a neat touch, I recall them fondly.
And now back to hat talk. :eusa_doh:
*************jimmy the lid said:Yup, I can vouch for the fact that letter prefixes were used in the early 60's. Actually, when you told someone your phone number you'd say the full name (like "Lincoln" in Brad's example) plus the numbers. Hadn't thought about that in a while...
If I remember correctly the letters were used into the 1960' and even the 1970's in some places. It was a way to know the general area of a phone number way back when. My parents home in Copiague was just a few blocks east of Amityville on Long Island and their old phone number started with AMityville-4 or AM-4. I remember the AMityville -4 being typed on a piece of paper enclosed in the center of the rotary dialer. In Copiague proper the numbers started with MY-something. In NYC the exchange NAME number was a big deal as it showed if you lived in an upper upper class neighborhood. Nat Sherman had some cigars named after some of the famous exchanges in their cigar line, Also, Gimbels department store had a re-upolstering department that advertised on TV and the jingle had their phone number in it as i recall it was something like JUdson-6-6-three hundred (JU-6-6300).
Exchanges were a neat touch, I recall them fondly.
And now back to hat talk. :eusa_doh:
jimmy the lid
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,647
- Location
- USA
John in Covina said:
Exactly right! I hadn't thought of that in ages!
And now back to hat talk...
Cheers,
JtL
carldelo
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,568
- Location
- Astoria, NYC
Yup
Growing up south of Seattle, my exchange was "ALpine 5", far superior to my best friend's "BAldwin 8", or at least that how I saw it. Better a tree than some dead guy. Exchanges were in use until the early 70s, although some may have been hold over of people (like my family) unwilling to give up on the names. I still see no advantage in dropping the exchange name - the little letters are still on the phones, right? In fact, I believe I will start referring to my phone number exchange as "PAris 6". What's the harm? And who has the lucky Fedora Lounge prefix "FL"?
OK NOW back to hat talk
Growing up south of Seattle, my exchange was "ALpine 5", far superior to my best friend's "BAldwin 8", or at least that how I saw it. Better a tree than some dead guy. Exchanges were in use until the early 70s, although some may have been hold over of people (like my family) unwilling to give up on the names. I still see no advantage in dropping the exchange name - the little letters are still on the phones, right? In fact, I believe I will start referring to my phone number exchange as "PAris 6". What's the harm? And who has the lucky Fedora Lounge prefix "FL"?
OK NOW back to hat talk
ideaguy
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,042
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
NICE LID:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
I've got an Adam that doesn't have a sweat anymore, but does have some paper labeling: "Adam Royal" "AM SKYLARK" G110
$5.00
665 Broadway, N.Y.C.
Terrific hat- nice felt, smooth, consistent, thin ribbon, grosgrain edging
that's stitched rather heavily- all in all a "good" hat- at the $5.00
pricing, and the appearance of the label, I'd be thinking late 40's maybe
early 50's....?
mine's in a light cocoa color-takes a steam-forming really easily; use a tea pot with a good spout, snap the brim down in the front, up a bit in back, brush
that baby well (not too hard, you'll get a "fuzzy" hat) and wear & enjoy-
congratulations and welcome to the Lounge!
I've got an Adam that doesn't have a sweat anymore, but does have some paper labeling: "Adam Royal" "AM SKYLARK" G110
$5.00
665 Broadway, N.Y.C.
Terrific hat- nice felt, smooth, consistent, thin ribbon, grosgrain edging
that's stitched rather heavily- all in all a "good" hat- at the $5.00
pricing, and the appearance of the label, I'd be thinking late 40's maybe
early 50's....?
mine's in a light cocoa color-takes a steam-forming really easily; use a tea pot with a good spout, snap the brim down in the front, up a bit in back, brush
that baby well (not too hard, you'll get a "fuzzy" hat) and wear & enjoy-
congratulations and welcome to the Lounge!
Stan
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 336
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
Phone Exchanges
Hi,
Ah-Ha! Something here in *my* field - telecom. Yay!! lol
OK, these letters are for early exchanges, as in electrically switched telephone central offices. They were named, usually, for the neighborhoods or commercial districts in which they were located.
Many of them had more than one exchange inside the central office for a given district. So, you might have Murray Hill 1, 2, 3, etc. The names would be used such that there were no overlaps in the numbers on the dial that corresponed to the name. So, one area might use MH for Murray Hill and another might use MU, etc.
You could direct dial, meaning no operator was required, between exchanges within an area by dialling the seven numbers. You could dial within an exchange by dialling the five numbers after the two letters -or- by using all seven. This was the payoff of going to seven digits for phone numbers. Remember this, as I'll talk about fewer than seven digit numbers in a minute.
Plus, when seven digit dialling came into being, it also allowed for Direct Distance Dialling, meaing self-serve long distance, by dialling a '1' in front of the area code, then the seven digits of the phone number.
Note that these phone numbers have three numbers for the exchange and four for the phone itself. That denotes an electrically operated exchange, also known as an automatic relay station. There were still operators, but for customer assistance, as opposed to the original operators, who had to use plugs and jacks to switch your call.
Now, we can use telephone numbers to date things based on this. Prior to around 1955 in most cities, the phone numbers were three or four digits If you wanted to call someone in your exchange, you dialled the three or four digits and didn't need an operator. If you wanted to call between exchanges, however, then you first had to dial '0' to get the operator and then tell her which exchange you wanted.
This is where the exchange names originally came from! You had to know the exchange name so that the operator could connect to another operator in the desired exchange to dial up the person you wanted. When they changed to automatic systems, they kept the names and associated them with the three new digits.
Now, the terminology of this would be a 'person-to-person' call. Note this in some movies.
You could also make a person-to-station call, where you'd call *your* operator and ask for connection to an operator at the other exchange, or station, where you could ask for a person by name and address if you did not know their exchange number.
Anyway, on to the timing of all this. Prior to around 1920, you *had* to make all calls via the operator. This was done by lifting the receiver and running a crank that made a bell ring at the operator's console. She (this was traditionally a woman's job, which you'll also see in old movies) would answer, you'd have a little chat (everyone knew the local exchange operators by name and sound of voice), then tell her what you wanted and, eventually, you'd get your call placed.
During the 1920's the cities started installing racks of relays that could be used to semi automatically dial within the exchange. This is when the three (thousand number) and four (ten thousand number) exchanges came into being, and phones started sprouting dials.
If you had a dial phone, but wanted to call outside the exchange, you could dial '0' or whack the hookswitch ten or more times. BTW, whacking the hookswitch does exactly the same thing as the switches the dial operates inside the phone. Hookswitching is how older non-dial equipped phones would get the operator after the relay exchange was installed in place of the old manual switchboard.
By the beginning of the 1950's, though, phones were becoming so common, esp in the big cities, that they had to make things a little more automated. This is when the multiple exchange Central Office came into being, alone with seven digit dialling and even direct dial Long Distance.
Now, the timing *does* all depend on the size of the cities as to just when they got 3 or 4 digit numbers, then later 7 digits with the first two being letters, and then finally 7 digits with no letters.
Having said that, I can generally date all this. By 1930, the local switchboards were gone in most places, in favor of four digit dialling. By 1955, the four digit numbers became seven with exchange letters. By 1970, the exchange letters were gone.
Oh, and since 2000, we've been slowly converting to *ten* digit dialling. The area code is no more, practially. There's such a need for numbers for data, fax and whatnot, that the area codes, with their digit restrictions dating back to the first DDD stations in the mid-1950's, are fast losing their relationship with geographic areas.
By 2010, we'll all have to dial all ten digits for every call, and while you might have a legacy area code (like mine here is 919), the guy next door might have a totally different one. It might be one carried from halfway across the country, or it might be a totally new one, like 123.
At the same time, the concept of Long Distance, with all the extra fees is also all but extinct. Nowdays, LD means outside of North America!
It's already this way with cell phones, and has been for nearly a decade, as cell phone systems don't have any legacy bits to worry about.
Oh, and the last local manually operated switchboard, with a live operator, I knew of was where a friend's familiy lived in the center of Pennsylvania, and that was replaced by a computerized system in 1982. They'd left it in place as the woman that operated it had done so since 1940, and no one that lived around there wanted her to lose he job. Once she passed on, though, they rapidly replaced the switchboard that had been in her living room...
Well, that was a long post, but maybe it sheds a little light on vintage phone numbers and how it all worked.
Later!
Stan
Hi,
Ah-Ha! Something here in *my* field - telecom. Yay!! lol
OK, these letters are for early exchanges, as in electrically switched telephone central offices. They were named, usually, for the neighborhoods or commercial districts in which they were located.
Many of them had more than one exchange inside the central office for a given district. So, you might have Murray Hill 1, 2, 3, etc. The names would be used such that there were no overlaps in the numbers on the dial that corresponed to the name. So, one area might use MH for Murray Hill and another might use MU, etc.
You could direct dial, meaning no operator was required, between exchanges within an area by dialling the seven numbers. You could dial within an exchange by dialling the five numbers after the two letters -or- by using all seven. This was the payoff of going to seven digits for phone numbers. Remember this, as I'll talk about fewer than seven digit numbers in a minute.
Plus, when seven digit dialling came into being, it also allowed for Direct Distance Dialling, meaing self-serve long distance, by dialling a '1' in front of the area code, then the seven digits of the phone number.
Note that these phone numbers have three numbers for the exchange and four for the phone itself. That denotes an electrically operated exchange, also known as an automatic relay station. There were still operators, but for customer assistance, as opposed to the original operators, who had to use plugs and jacks to switch your call.
Now, we can use telephone numbers to date things based on this. Prior to around 1955 in most cities, the phone numbers were three or four digits If you wanted to call someone in your exchange, you dialled the three or four digits and didn't need an operator. If you wanted to call between exchanges, however, then you first had to dial '0' to get the operator and then tell her which exchange you wanted.
This is where the exchange names originally came from! You had to know the exchange name so that the operator could connect to another operator in the desired exchange to dial up the person you wanted. When they changed to automatic systems, they kept the names and associated them with the three new digits.
Now, the terminology of this would be a 'person-to-person' call. Note this in some movies.
You could also make a person-to-station call, where you'd call *your* operator and ask for connection to an operator at the other exchange, or station, where you could ask for a person by name and address if you did not know their exchange number.
Anyway, on to the timing of all this. Prior to around 1920, you *had* to make all calls via the operator. This was done by lifting the receiver and running a crank that made a bell ring at the operator's console. She (this was traditionally a woman's job, which you'll also see in old movies) would answer, you'd have a little chat (everyone knew the local exchange operators by name and sound of voice), then tell her what you wanted and, eventually, you'd get your call placed.
During the 1920's the cities started installing racks of relays that could be used to semi automatically dial within the exchange. This is when the three (thousand number) and four (ten thousand number) exchanges came into being, and phones started sprouting dials.
If you had a dial phone, but wanted to call outside the exchange, you could dial '0' or whack the hookswitch ten or more times. BTW, whacking the hookswitch does exactly the same thing as the switches the dial operates inside the phone. Hookswitching is how older non-dial equipped phones would get the operator after the relay exchange was installed in place of the old manual switchboard.
By the beginning of the 1950's, though, phones were becoming so common, esp in the big cities, that they had to make things a little more automated. This is when the multiple exchange Central Office came into being, alone with seven digit dialling and even direct dial Long Distance.
Now, the timing *does* all depend on the size of the cities as to just when they got 3 or 4 digit numbers, then later 7 digits with the first two being letters, and then finally 7 digits with no letters.
Having said that, I can generally date all this. By 1930, the local switchboards were gone in most places, in favor of four digit dialling. By 1955, the four digit numbers became seven with exchange letters. By 1970, the exchange letters were gone.
Oh, and since 2000, we've been slowly converting to *ten* digit dialling. The area code is no more, practially. There's such a need for numbers for data, fax and whatnot, that the area codes, with their digit restrictions dating back to the first DDD stations in the mid-1950's, are fast losing their relationship with geographic areas.
By 2010, we'll all have to dial all ten digits for every call, and while you might have a legacy area code (like mine here is 919), the guy next door might have a totally different one. It might be one carried from halfway across the country, or it might be a totally new one, like 123.
At the same time, the concept of Long Distance, with all the extra fees is also all but extinct. Nowdays, LD means outside of North America!
It's already this way with cell phones, and has been for nearly a decade, as cell phone systems don't have any legacy bits to worry about.
Oh, and the last local manually operated switchboard, with a live operator, I knew of was where a friend's familiy lived in the center of Pennsylvania, and that was replaced by a computerized system in 1982. They'd left it in place as the woman that operated it had done so since 1940, and no one that lived around there wanted her to lose he job. Once she passed on, though, they rapidly replaced the switchboard that had been in her living room...
Well, that was a long post, but maybe it sheds a little light on vintage phone numbers and how it all worked.
Later!
Stan
- Messages
- 11,579
- Location
- Covina, Califonia 91722
************Stan said:
When you have say brick and mortar operations and homes that have two different area codes over the same area, we refer that as an "overlay" and in the Southern California area it has been going on for quite a while. One thing it plays havic with are some of the apartment building communications boxes where you jit a button out front to speak to the occupant you wish to visit. These boxes did not have accomodations for area codes while they used the local phone sytem. The overlay meant all calls needed an area code and the box wouldn't work.
Good stuff Stan.
This might help some folks...
http://www.reversephonedirectory.com/
Sorry but...
I'm more interested in the ADAM hats.
This might help some folks...
http://www.reversephonedirectory.com/
Sorry but...
I'm more interested in the ADAM hats.
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tracyam
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 100
- Location
- South Carolina
I started treating the sweatband with Lexol this evening...very carefully. VERY fragile. I've been wearing it for two weeks and nothing has gone wrong with it. But the minute I need to move the sweatband around and put the medicine on it some of the outer layer of leather started falling off.
At least it'll be in better shape than it was. Thanks for all your help folks.
At least it'll be in better shape than it was. Thanks for all your help folks.
There's a place here in Virginia that I chanced across... I was looking for a store that carried Scout cleaner, and we've got a tractor supply here. They suggested a place in Richmond, Myrna's Boots -N- bits. Low and behold I found it quite by accident today. I was speaking w/ a woman who works there, she seemed super knowledgeable about hats (the little bit I've learned on-line about hat cleaning). She was quite adamant about not selling me the spray cleaner unless I was 100% certain the hat was felt and not wool (which I wasn't at the time). They have someone who comes in on weekends to do hats. She said it's NOT dry-cleaning but reworking hats that they do. Don't know if anyone's had any experience w/them or not.
johnnyphi
Sponsoring Affiliate
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- 899
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- God Bless Texas!
Examples of other Adams and a Lee with Similar Interior Crown...
You found a beauty of a hat, but it is not older than the mid-50s...
I like Stoney's attitude, but I think the hat is definitely Late-50s to Mid-60s. It has all of the standard markings of an Adam from that era. I have seen many different quality levels, including Majestic, Royal, Executive, Premier Executive and Premier. I personally think Premier Executive was probably a transitional level of quality between Executive and Premier.
Here is an example of an Executive Quality Adam "Stratoliner" that I posted a few months ago... It looks very similar, aside from the ribbon width. Note the identical Adam logo and the Aqua Shed trademark on the sweatband.
Here's an example of a Lee Corral with a semi-lined interior... I have a few Adams with similar linings, but I don't have photos, yet. These semi-lined hats seem to be paired with light-weight felts and/or "farmers" hats, with wide brims and thin ribbons.
You found a beauty of a hat, but it is not older than the mid-50s...
I like Stoney's attitude, but I think the hat is definitely Late-50s to Mid-60s. It has all of the standard markings of an Adam from that era. I have seen many different quality levels, including Majestic, Royal, Executive, Premier Executive and Premier. I personally think Premier Executive was probably a transitional level of quality between Executive and Premier.
Here is an example of an Executive Quality Adam "Stratoliner" that I posted a few months ago... It looks very similar, aside from the ribbon width. Note the identical Adam logo and the Aqua Shed trademark on the sweatband.
Here's an example of a Lee Corral with a semi-lined interior... I have a few Adams with similar linings, but I don't have photos, yet. These semi-lined hats seem to be paired with light-weight felts and/or "farmers" hats, with wide brims and thin ribbons.
Stoney said:
