Fedoras with flat brims, or, dimensional brims revisited

[Richard Warren]

I have been watching old movies, and notice from the 1930's a lot of fedoras with a flat brim, that roll up on the sides and curve down gently in the front and perhaps even in the back. I think the detective and Chris in The Thin Man have one, as does the policeman in the movie with Rosalind Russel and Robert Montgomery (something with "dark" in the title) I watched this am.

The look is actually pretty close to, well.......the Indy hat in many of its manifestations. I understand that the Indy hat has typically a dimensional brim, whereas such were historically a rarity.

I can sort of get the look with some of my hats by curling up the sides, but they just have too much curl in the brim.

So, do I have to bite the bullet and get an Indy hat, or does anyone make a hat with a flat brim that might suit?

 

[carldelo]

I'm pretty sure you could iron a hat brim flat without much trouble, as long as it doesn't have a bound edge. My Stetson Chatham brim has become somewhat non-snappy and flat due to careless treatment on my part. Maybe those guys back in the day with flat brims were just too busy to get their hat brims re-flanged after they lost their snap.

Also, if you've seen Foyle's War on PBS, DCI Foyle sports a pretty flat brim, definitely looks like a stylistic choice, as his deputy wears his hat the same way. I think it's a good look.

PS - my major issue with my Chatham now is that because the brim is flat, the sides spontaneously curl up and make it look a little cowboy-like, which I don't want. I would prefer it to either be flat, like Foyle, or traditionally snap-brim shaped. I will someday have the edge bound to see if that helps restore the snap. Although perhaps I could iron it fully flat, then add some stiffener to keep the sides from curling, hmmm...

 

[Havana]

My grandfather definitely subscribed to the same style as seen on Foyle. I always thought the flat brim style was a Southern thing. I've also seen it on Open Roads and it's common on campaign/mountie type hats. My grandfather used to occassionally put his wide brim dress fedora on the kitchen table overnight with heavy encyclopedia volumes resting on the brim to make it as flat as possible for church the next day. It wasn't a bad look on him.

 

[frussell]

Flat Brim

On some hats, I like the flatter brim. I'm a fairly large fella, and if I have too much curl in a fedora (rear brim), it looks like a derby or pork pie on me. On a tall skinny guy, too flat a brim can make you look a bit like a two penny nail, or a capital "T." Took me a long time to get comfortable with a flatter brim. When I was in college at the University of Texas in Austin, I was a member of a service fraternity that had a cowboy uniform. All members wore black Stetson cowboy hats. The new initiates had to wear theirs in the "pancake" style, sort of a flat-brimmed, flat-crown gaucho or Colonial Mexico-style hat. I was a 6'5" skinny 20 year old then, and I felt really goofy. Our reward for making the first six months of torment and hard work was that we got to get our hats bashed into real western shapes once we were official members. I guess the flat brim stigma stayed with me for a few years. Frank

 

[Richard Warren]

PS - my major issue with my Chatham now is that because the brim is flat, the sides spontaneously curl up and make it look a little cowboy-like

I think that's exactly the look I am thinking of. Most of my hats have bound edges of one sort or another, but even the unbound ones have acquired more rather than less curl as they have aged.

 

[Dinerman]

Take a look at the pre- '40s Dress Hats Thread.
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=45113

I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by your hats having acquired curl to the brims. Are these vintage hats or modern ones?

 

[Richard Warren]

Dinerman,

That's an interesting thread but I do not see an example of what I am talking about.

The hats I referred to as getting more curl are modern hats. They all have a pronounced curl near the edge of the brim that forms a sort of a hump in the front when snapped down. This is lessened somewhat if I actively curl up the sides. The curl in the brim seems to me to have increased as I have worn the hats. I have attributed this perhaps wrongly to shrinkage. The only unbound one is a Borsalino Film that is about ten years old and by now very soft and floppy. Maybe I could try ironing the brim.

Looks to me like the pronounced curl is a style variant that has become near universal.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Richard is this close??

 

[Richard Warren]

The hat next to the caption "silk faced lining" is pretty darn close.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Good Richard here is the link I hope it helps further.

http://www.plainolas.com/Men_Headgear.html

 

[Lefty]

Cool spot, CB. Thanks for the link.

 

[Mario]

Good Richard here is the link I hope it helps further.

http://www.plainolas.com/Men_Headgear.html

Great link!

 

[Richard Warren]

That is an interesting link, from which I quote:

"The Fedora also had the same “center crease” in the top of the crown but could also have “side pinches” or “puckers.” Characteristic to all is the 2 ¼ to 2 ½ inch flat brim which can be shaped to the desire of the wearer. Think Indiana Jones." (Emphasis added.)

If only the flat brim were "characteristic to all."

 

[ScottF]

Dinerman,

That's an interesting thread but I do not see an example of what I am talking about.

The hats I referred to as getting more curl are modern hats. They all have a pronounced curl near the edge of the brim that forms a sort of a hump in the front when snapped down. This is lessened somewhat if I actively curl up the sides. The curl in the brim seems to me to have increased as I have worn the hats. I have attributed this perhaps wrongly to shrinkage. The only unbound one is a Borsalino Film that is about ten years old and by now very soft and floppy. Maybe I could try ironing the brim.

Looks to me like the pronounced curl is a style variant that has become near universal.

I think I have had a bunch of unbound ones like what you're referring to; in particular, a Borso that I was always 50-50 as to whether to snap or not. I don't have any good pics of it bashed - only the one in the middle from ebay.

The bottom pic shows a flatter-brimmed borso, that doesn't get the 'hump' you describe, but still has enough curl on the sides and back, that you don't get with totally flat-brimmed hats like the Akubra Fed IV and the super-old Borsos.

 

[Richard Warren]

The third picture down of a light brown hat (which looks a lot like my Borsalino Film) from the side displays the hump I was referring to quite well. Not a knock on the hat--I'm just kind of curious as to when and why this became so ubiquitous and if a flatter brim can still be found.

 

[ScottF]

The third picture down of a light brown hat (which looks a lot like my Borsalino Film) from the side displays the hump I was referring to quite well. Not a knock on the hat--I'm just kind of curious as to when and why this became so ubiquitous and if a flatter brim can still be found.

The pic you refer to is the same hat as shown in the top photo - sorry it's so ugly, but it's the original ebay pic, and all I had that showed that 'hump'.

Sure, you can find plenty of hats without it - the Akubra Fed IV is a perfect example. I think that hump started appearing in the mid-50s - the nice thing about it is that you can just leave it unsnapped and steam the front down a little, and the hat looks great, like an early pencil-curled western (but with less curl).

 

[Brad Bowers]

Both styles have always been around, and it's not really a question of one gaining prominence over the other. It's all dependent on the flange used to shape the brim. The more-curved flange has been the dominant style in the marketplace throughout the 20th century, and even though the flatter brim has also always been around, it has seemed to be less prominent. Many of the more casual styles of the '30s and '40s feature this type of brim, regardless of brim width.

Brad

 

[rlk]

Also, if a hat is stretched at the sweatband rather than re-blocked to a larger size, the tension about the brim crown break is increased tending to create a ridge or hump along the snap. The brim must curl as a result. The inner circle of the donut is larger but the outer is unchanged.

 

[ScottF]

Also, if a hat is stretched at the sweatband rather than re-blocked to a larger size, the tension about the brim crown break is increased tending to create a ridge or hump along the snap. The brim must curl as a result. The inner circle of the donut is larger but the outer is unchanged.

The example I posted is of a pristine hat in original condition, never stretched - quite clearly the flange intended by the hatter, and one that I've seen most commonly in hats from the mid-50's.

 

[rlk]

The example I posted is of a pristine hat in original condition, never stretched - quite clearly the flange intended by the hatter, and one that I've seen most commonly in hats from the mid-50's.

Sometimes the flanging kind of relaxes on the very old ones, and the wide bound edges seem to flatten the brims out on some as well. Usage and storage conditions no doubt play a major factor. Cleaning, blocking and re-flanging can adjust the hat for either preference.