Fedora Lounge dress hat test

[MK]

.

I'm not going to be there (have no idea where or when this is), but if you're going to have a "test", the academic in me says that prior to the test, you should determine and publish:

• criteria
• methods of assessing how well the criteria are met
• numbering or scoring system

This would help me understand what in the world you intend to do, as saying you will "test hats" is a phrase with null meaning. If you want to have a contest based on beauty and material feel, fine. However, the discussion so far gives me no clue as to what will be tested or how.

If I were a hatter, I would have no interest in bringing hats to a test/contest with no criteria, no method of assessment and no scoring system. Given that all three had been published, I would review them and bring the hats that I thought would generate my greatest advantage.

In other words: "what in the gee-whiz do you have in mind, anyway?"

1) We haven't announced what the test is. We merely announced a test will be done. "null meaning"? None coming.

2) I am not interested in pleasing or satisfying anyone regarding this test. It isn't a popularity contest. We are conducting it because it needs to be done. We don't need anyone's cooperation or approval to conduct the test. We will buy the hats if need be.

I have no horse in this race. I own and wear Optimo, Akubra, Art Fawcett, Biltmore, and vintage Stetson, Borsalino, Dobbs and Resistol. I wear vintage, new, custom and off the shelf. My only agenda is to know what is real and what is legend.

 

[gekisai29]

Ths event sounds like a lot of fun. Why not approach it in that spirit?

 

[RedPop4]

Ths event sounds like a lot of fun. Why not approach it in that spirit?

Well said. There are a lot of negative undertones in this thread, and I've gotten increasingly uncomfortable reading it.

 

[Byrne Sherwood]

Ditto. Lighten up, fellas. Y'all seem to be all about announcing it as a public thing that we should all embrace, but get defensive at any suggestions or discussion. Do it in private and don't announce it if you are going to be so protective.

 

[Pilgrim]

If my comments were perceived as being negative, that wasn't my intent - just to ask what the test is, what it's supposed to measure, and how it's going to do it.

The answers could be:

1) It's about an hour.
2) It's to find out which hats look coolest and have the nicest felt. The judges will all be served at least three stiff drinks before deciding on their own measures of what "coolest" and "nicest" mean.
3) The judges will sit their glasses down (unless they don'wanna), walk around the room and check out hats by any means they feel appropriate, then confer and announce their decision.

See?

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I suspect...

That this is a case of

"Save the Date" like they do for events and parties.

They have told you it -will- happen, so that you can all stop speculating and arguing about tests and so forth and plan ahead to this one.

But much like party plans, where the invites are sent out way before the food is ordered and the wine chilled, they are working feverishly behind the scenes to answer all the questions and define the test etc..

So asking what you are eating at the party....is a bit hasty and premature, and one should never base their attendance on what the menu is.

It makes me wonder if you all get all your work tasks done within a day of being given them ? Have a wee bit of patience in letting people work on something which you must remember they do for -free- in their non work hours.....

 

[feltfan]

We will buy the hats if need be.

There sure is a lot of fur flying over this one...
Sorry, had to say it.

Sounds like a great thought to me. I wonder, from what
MK said, if this will be a destructive or non-destructive test?
If it is non-destructive, I might be tempted to "enter" a couple
of hats. I know the details aren't worked out yet, so I'm making
the suggestion.

 

[Byrne Sherwood]

If my comments were perceived as being negative, that wasn't my intent

Pilgrim-I did not perceive your comments to be negative, but they seemed to elicit a negative response.

 

[RedPop4]

I concur. The "just be patient, you'll enjoy it, I promise" type of response has instead been replaced by a seemingly menacing tone, which I find HIGHLY unusual here at the Lounge. Pilgrim's questions seemed reasonable to me, and constructive as well.

Sorry to keep it up.

 

[clevispin]

Somebody got their panties all in a bunch. The rich kid took his ball back and went home and now he's gonna have his OWN game by his OWN rules and only invite the people that kiss his a-- to play.

What kinda test can you do in one day? How do you test drive a car by just looking at it?

There is a lot of good discussion about hats and felt and skeleton linings etc. in this forum. To reduce a lot of well thought out arguments developed over the years to a contest on a party boat is insane. Are the judges drinking that day?

We need thoughtful reflection not whimsy. Fedoras are a serious business.

That is all. m

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Well said. There are a lot of negative undertones in this thread, and I've gotten increasingly uncomfortable reading it.

In this thread only? I've been seeing such negative and menacing under- and quite often over-tones in the hat forum recently. It seems to devolve to the same heated discussion at least once every two days.

Will the contest end this? Methinks not.

bk

 

[Pilgrim]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm cool now.

Must be beer-thirty somewhere!

 

[MK]

.

Somebody got their panties all in a bunch. The rich kid took his ball back and went home and now he's gonna have his OWN game by his OWN rules and only invite the people that kiss his a-- to play.

What kinda test can you do in one day? How do you test drive a car by just looking at it?

There is a lot of good discussion about hats and felt and skeleton linings etc. in this forum. To reduce a lot of well thought out arguments developed over the years to a contest on a party boat is insane. Are the judges drinking that day?

We need thoughtful reflection not whimsy. Fedoras are a serious business.

That is all. m

....comments like that is why people get their "panites in a bunch".

Everybody needs to take a deep breath. We will do a test. If the information helps you in decisions regarding felt hats....great. If not.....great.

 

[thefedorastore]

This should have been a private battle. To our dismay, making it public is just alienating everyone. I think if the threads and posts that led to this were ignored or taken tounge in cheek, it wouldn't have come to the creation of two angry mobs and a handful of spectators. Where did all the gentlemen go anyway? I promise I wont change this post anymore!

 

[Pilgrim]

"Fedoras are a serious business?"

Geez, time for your pill! ONLY to those who are in the biz - for the rest of us, I sincerely hope that fedoras are an amusing hobby, an item of style, and something we enjoy....but not a serious, grit-teeth issue. It sure isn't for me.

And I might note that most of the folks "in the biz" on this forum do not conduct themselves as if this is a grit-teeth issue. They generally behave with style and forbearance.

I'm not sure how we got here from where we started. If my suggestion of setting criteria for the contest (a request made to gain understanding, not to create draconian structures) contributed, then I apologize.

Let's lighten up in this forum, hmmm?

 

[Fedora]

This should have been a private battle. To our dismay, making it public is just alienating everyone.

I think all need some background here. This started out as a public argument on another forum. Between me and Matt. He stated there, publically, that all beaver felt was thick, stiff, and would crack. Unsuitable for a high quality dress hat. I disagreed, and we debated. So, when I got samples on the lightweight pure beaver dress felt with zero stiffener, I sent this to Matt to prove him wrong. He did the Lambada. It seems his appraisel was invalid, and he has a problem with admitting he was wrong. This has been public from the get-go. If you make an uninformed generalization, you need to be called on it. Now, there is a positive aspect to all of this. Guess what? The primo fur used for hats is pure beaver. Pure beaver does not have to be stiff, and thick, and it certainly does not crack. All I was doing was trying to get the real facts out there. If you want to believe all beaver is thick and stiff and low quality, I can show you differently. If you refuse to believe your eyes, that is a personal problem. And heck yes, it needs to be public. Otherwise, you would believe what one, uniformed person, that supposedly has credence, says about a particular felt. We can all have opinons, but at least let those opinions be based on facts. It is easier to swallow. Fedora

 

[Wild Root]

All around the mulberry bush…

A test eh? Is it a vintage VS custom test? I might have over looked something but, I'm just curious. I know that Matt and MK are working out all the kinks but, I think a general description of what is going to be done to the hats to "test" them would be good for the sake of the team. Inform us to a point of what the test has in store... now, if the methods that are going to be used to test the hats are undecided, maybe going public with this might have been a bit hasty.

My hats are staying home or, sitting this one out. I love my hats but, they are hats and I don't consider them "Serious Business" in the least. But, I don't need to test them to know I love them and they work for me... I'm not out to prove a point, I wear vintage only... it's my preference and also, I'm cheap like most average men were in the 30's and 40's.

This is one reason why I stay out of the hat forum... it gets sticky real quickie.

=WR=

 

[gekisai29]

Enough of this nonsense. If you can't play nice go back to your store until you can.

 

[WEEGEE]

QUALITY vs QUALITY

All involved would agree that the hats in question to be tested are of quality? and the testing is to determine which is of greatest quality?

As this definition below applies to value i feel it rings as true to quality.

subjective vs subjective???


Subjective theory of value, an economic theory of value that holds that there is no intrinsic value of goods and services; rather, things become valuable solely by individuals' desiring to have them, and the magnitude of that value is measured by how much of any given thing one is willing to forgo in order to obtain them

or

objective vs objective???

Conclusion
Objectivity is then the act of, or propensity for being objective, and is not the objective itself. The possibility of a complete objectivity has been often debated, in particular in the fields of history, journalism and epistemology (see also philosophy of science). It has been considered as the result of a specific historical method or scientific method, or even, as in the classic Marxist conception, as the result of social interactions. In this sense, the discourse's objectivity is the result of social interactions, and the scientific discourse can't be disassociated from the social context.
J?ºrgen Habermas, to the contrary, believed in a dialogue which could be isolated from power relations, and finally reach a consensus, considered as the condition of possibility of the discourse itself. He thus thought that objectivity was achieved through a continuous dialogue, which would only lead toward further improvement and accuracy. According to this conception, objectivity requires communication and good faith. Even if one does not accept the existence of independent propositions or timeless truths, this does not exclude the possibility of viable communication or knowledge.
This optimistic view of necessary progress through conversation was criticized by philosophers such as Michel Foucault or Gilles Deleuze, whom solidified an alleged definition of philosophy as "marketing" or as simple "democratic conversation", where everyone would expose his personal point of view.


Just some thoughts...man,i love my hats and most of the lounge members

hats.

cheers,

WeeGee

 

[Visigoth]

Weegee, this is hilarious: not only do we have hats and press cameras in common, but also Continental philosophy... (which ought to be directed, of course, at hats and press cameras, rather than lesser fields of inquiry like ethics and metaphysics).