Fallschirmjager Regiment 6 - Pacific Northwest

[BellyTank]

It's good that you posted a link to the "Weekend Nazi" documentary.
Thanks.


B
T

 

[Johnny B]

okay so basically one group dresses in costumes and plays games and gets upset at the groups with guns and swastikas and another group dresses in costumes and plays games and gets upset at the groups without guns and swastikas

im going to have to give the point to the waffen-ss though because they dont have a hilariously self righteous manifesto describing why they are much better than everyone who disagrees with them

 

[der schneider]

I have made 3 sets of north vietnamese army black pajama's for tall white haired coucasians. the NVA uniform is more comfortable in the heat than the non communist uniforms. Ak 47s are cheaper than M16's and straw hats are much cooler than helmets.

I rememberthe 1st time I saw a SS reenactor. he was LAH I asked how did he get to the event with out being beaten. He dressed at the event so he wouldnt offend anyone during his travels. it took me a while to come to grips with that impression but it sparked an interest in something that had never occured to me before.,

It isnt a political thing at all, it is for most, a way to get closer to the experiance of the persons who realy lived it. Talking to anyone who can give you first hand accounts is very enlightening. there are a lot of vets who will tell their expieriance when they get to know you. If you reenact the revolution or the french indian war or the war of 1812 you can't look at photo's or ask someone who was really there, what was it like. WWII reenacting allows you to have answers to those questions. Rememeber that germany lost everything in the end. The whole world suffered at the hands of all the powers of the world. In war there are no winners If you forget the suffering you risk it all happening again.
Be aware that the media will shed the worst light on a subject because that is what sells. Before you pass judgement get to know the persons involved and then decide.

 

[MPicciotto]

Anybody here read any of William Shires works or "Der Fuehrer" by Konrad Heiden written in 1944. The psyche of the average German both in and out of the Army in the years leading up to WW2 and during the war is greatly different then is often portrayed. "World War 2 German" often has the same effect on people as "Muslim" does today for to many people. Either case is sickening to me. On the other hand I am deeply troubled by those persons who have "SS" tattooed on their arms. I do know some like this and the "party line" by the unit leaders is that the SS unit they are portraying committed no war crimes. Yet members of this unit include persons who claim the Holocaust did not happen!

Do I participate in "Battle Reenactments"? No. But that is merely because my particular area's of study have been in US Homefront and in USAAF. The closest we've come to combat reenacting is bombing the field with watermelons from a B-25J.

Matt

 

[HungaryTom]

Before...

After...

 

[Johnny B]

hahaha thats one thing i will never understand about reenactors. They'll whine and moan about being as accurate to their target as possible right down to entries in a pay book or stitching and then they're 45 years old, nearsighted and 280 pounds

 

[MPicciotto]

Another reason I don't portray a combatant. I'm fat. Well not like some in that pic. But I shudder when I see 300lb'rs portraying airborne. Considering the "Jump Weight" was 300lbs. with all gear I just cringe when I see that. In fact "so I can fit in my uniforms" is one of the reason I'm dieting and exercising It always fascinates me that a person would spend thousands of dollars on accurate reproduction or original kit items, going to great lengths to obtain them in larger sizes and not eat and exercise properly to come anywhere near close to who they are attempting to portray.

Matt

 

[KilroyCD]

Another reason I don't portray a combatant. I'm fat...

Matt, you and I know all too well that is the reason why the vast majority of our living history portrayals are mainly Homefront. The overwhelming majority of military types just weren't as big as we are. (Tho' I did see a photo of a couple rather large RAF ground "wallahs" who were stationed at Biggin Hill in 1940).

 

[MPicciotto]

Chris,

Your right there are "exceptions" There is an absolute "HOSS" on the ground crew in the Army documentary on The Memphis Belle.

Matt

 

[_RAGNAR_]

I understand the statement about weight. Some of those pictures are of us mixed with other FJ reenactors. My organization (axis and allies) requires current height/weight standards be met by bylaws. We feel its the only respectful thing to do.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

Also you will see a distinct lack of swastikas in our pictures. You can find some very small ones, but that is it. For multiple reasons. For one, once again we are not trying to BE Nazi’s, we are reenacting a Fallschirmjager unit, none of us actually believe we are WWII Fallschirmjagers. Two, it is historically inaccurate, unlike most movies the Germans didn’t need to fill every space with a swastika flag. The already knew who they were! Maybe at SS headquarters or at rallies, but a normal unit doing normal activities would not have stupid flags all over the place. It is completely unnecessary to accomplish what we are doing, in fact it is counterproductive.

The only time we use them is during public battles we’ll hang one on a bunker, so after the allies take the bunker they can tear it down and put up a US or Brit flag. Then it makes sense as it’s an easy way for the public to see the good guys winning.

When we were invited to do events in Europe, we didn’t have a single swastika on anything. Can’t say the same for all people participating but we felt it was the respectful thing to do, while still trying to do as accurate portrayal as possible.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

Please do not tell me, that I am uneducated.
I was born in 1945 after my country had been occupied by the nazis for five years.
My father risked his life fighting the germans. He lost many close friends, who were captured, tortured and executed.
My fathers uncle came back from a KZ camp and was never able to live a ordinary life after that. he ended up taking his own life, when I was 9 years old.
I might not know in detail what you do - but I know enough of what the forces you and you group represent, did. Thank you.

I did not say you are uneducated. I said you were uneducated about what we do and why, and I stand by that statement. As far as your education and experiences concerning WWII I don’t presume to judge what they are.

Ignoring WWII happened because it was horrible, which of course it was, will not bring anyone back, neither will it prevent future wars. Ignoring the enemy will not solve anything either.

I neither apologize for the German nor defend them. I am not German nor am I responsible for their actions in WWII. I show their part of the story, that is all, nothing more nothing less. You inferred that we did not think before we posed in that picture, I answered that we did in fact think about it. You may still not like that we did it but so be it. We did think about it and we understand the consequences of doing it. The benefit for everyone involved in the whole experience was judged by us and the citizens of that area of France to be worth it to try to tell a fuller story.

Actually the best part of the photo was the French mother then said in a shocked manner “oh no, now we are collaborators” and she had a real expression of awareness on her face. She now had a emotional connection to history.

Now she has a reality to base her reading and the stories she has been told on; and she can use that moment of her and her daughters being dressed up and then posing with us to actually teach something, and I guarantee she went away and DID talk to her daughters about it. And I bet that was a powerful talk. Something far more real than it would have been without the experience.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

I didn’t even think to answer the question of why a specific unit, and especially why this unit.

FJR6 fought the 101 in Normandy, Holland and somewhat in the bulge. Between FJR6 and FJR5 (who ended up fighting mostly 82nd) you cover the FJ units that fought the major battles against their corresponding U.S. Airborne units. We portray the main enemy of the two most popular and studied U.S. units.

 

[dr greg]

enlightening

OK so as I understand it, there are corresponding re-enactors that have specific US units that fought against this one in actual engagements which are recreated?
That makes it a bit clearer.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

Yes, we fight specific battles against specific U.S. units. The 101 airborne and 82nd airborne are probably the most written about US unit of the war. The 101 fought FJR6 in all of the major campaigns (Normandy, Market Garden, Battle of the Bulge) making FJR6 a very logical unit to portray.

For battles the 6th regiment were not present for, we "reflag" as an appropriate FJ Regiment. Casually that is easy, we don’t wear unit patches so we can just say we are another unit, but to do it right requires quite a bit of work as each regiment looked different from each other, and looked different for each campaign, and sometime different at different stages of a campaign.

But we need a unit to “be” as it gives us something specific to study and model. A U.S. veteran who knew his enemy should be able to tell we are the 6th Regiment he fought against not the 5th as they looked just slightly different. No different to the untrained eye, but a man who faced this enemy would remember little details others would not see. A German veteran should feel like he is looking at his old unit with new faces.

The vets in Normandy knew who we were, even when we were in FJR5’s AO. A couple of times one would yell out “You guys are the 6th Regiment!” Then the stories would start about how they fought us here or there, or how a guy who landed right beside them got shot on this street (while we stood on that street) while another unknown guy got up while in his harness still attached to his chute and killed the German in hand-to-hand, etc, etc. It is amazing to see their eyes light up and the excitement and animation that overtakes them, when our presence invokes their memories.

FJR6 was refitting in France from Jan/Feb 1944. They were basically the last jump trained FJ unit, all the NCOs were veterans of many campaigns.

We represent 15 Kompanie, and we have spent time talking to a member of that company who fought in Normandy and then again in Holland (only surviving member of the Normandy campaign in his company to still be in his company in Holland to his knowledge) (his brother was also an FJ and fought and was captured in Afrika) both are good Canadians now and very nice gentlemen. They were suspicious of us until we met and then they decided we were on the right track and “proper” people and they needed to help us “to get it right.”

 

[dr greg]

fair enough

That pretty much answers my original question, I had an image of this being a group of people pulling their own wagon so to speak, but now I understand the context, and at least we got some interesting views expressed in the interim.

 

[Paden]

I can not believe, that there is non faszination for the nazis and the time.
When you see the Movie from Leni Riefenstahl, Triumph des Willens, than you know what I mean.
For me, reenacment is the facination of the bad side,of weapons and the power of that units.
With playing war, you a for a while in a different world and out of the good world.
A lot of group pressure, too and a strong group experience.
I can understand that, because when I see movies of that time, there is a fascination, too.
On the other side, my mind tells me different.
Again, this time and this war was now fun and a museum with documentations let the people better understand the time and the things around.
My uncle was for 8 years in the german wehrmacht and he never talked about this, because that was no fun.
He was the driver of fieldmarshal Model, who shoot hisself in 1945 in april 1945.
My uncel digged his grave..........................
This is nothing, I want to share with him.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

I can not believe, that there is non faszination for the nazis and the time.
When you see the Movie from Leni Riefenstahl, Triumph des Willens, than you know what I mean.
For me, reenacment is the facination of the bad side,of weapons and the power of that units.
With playing war, you a for a while in a different world and out of the good world.
A lot of group pressure, too and a strong group experience.
I can understand that, because when I see movies of that time, there is a fascination, too.
On the other side, my mind tells me different.
Again, this time and this war was now fun and a museum with documentations let the people better understand the time and the things around.
My uncle was for 8 years in the german wehrmacht and he never talked about this, because that was no fun.
He was the driver of fieldmarshal Model, who shoot hisself in 1945 in april 1945.
My uncel digged his grave..........................
This is nothing, I want to share with him.

You can believe or not believe anything you want (thank the allies for that)

You make numerous assumptions without any facts. I own Triumph of the Will, so your premise that I need to see it is flawed. I would consider it mandatory viewing for anyone who either A: wants to understand the medias power in propaganda, or B: anyone who want to reenact German and be able to intelligently discuss the history of Germany at the time.

I also disagree with you assumption that German veteran don’t want to talk about their experiences. Not surprisingly they don’t want to talk to many people about them; as every portion of what they did has been demonized by not only the world but by their own people and government.

Go to a German veterans reunion and tell me how many young Germans are there listening to what these men did and lived through (not just the war but their whole lives) but I’ll tell you how many of their children and grand children are there, zero. The only way any of their history will live is through foreigners who can and have passed the olive branch. The motto flying over the hall of the FJ sturm regiment reads: “Our enemies become of friends.” All people want to talk about their past, even the parts that were not fun, sometimes especially the parts that were not fun.

Historians both professional and amateur from America, GB, Australia, etc are the only young people there.

I don’t speak for all reenactors only for the people I associate with, but among us there is not “fascination” with Nazis. Personally I am vehemently anti-socialist in any form, nationalistic or otherwise.

If you want to call my interest fascination, then I am fascinated with battlefield operations and with the completely groundbreaking techniques and operations conducted that still resonate to this day in modern military operations. Eben Emael, Narvik, Crete, Monte Casino, Grand Sasso, on and on, where incredible military operations. I am just as “fascinated” by the Allied airborne and special operations forces and their accomplishments, which is why I have spent just as much time at Pegusus Bridge, Melville Battery, Pointe du Hoc, etc. and tramping around England to see the places t people like the Jedburgs trained.

 

[Spitfire]

Ragnar - the more you talk, the more it feels like you have to excuse yourself - and your group.
Or you have to cover up.
We've all seen the pictures, we have all let our different opinions out.

Why don't you and your group just go out in the woods and play war.

This conversation is getting nasty. And you spur it along with statements like "you can believe what you want - thanks to the allies".:rage:
This is a forum of gentlemen. Please behave like one.

 

[Paden]

You can believe or not believe anything you want (thank the allies for that)


Not surprisingly they don’t want to talk to many people about them; as every portion of what they did has been demonized by not only the world but by their own people and government.

The problem is, you do not understand me, because we are talking from different points.
I live in Germany and I can not split WWII in different parts.
It is not only the WWII, it is the holocaust, too.
And believe me, I am very proud to have a goverment, that will looks with sharp eyes not legalyc activties around that time, that will shine us in a bad
light for the rest of the world.
There is a big responsibilty for everybody here not to forget.
The puplic is very sensitive.
Again, when you live here, you will unerstand my view.
And Spitfire, you are right, this is a gentlemen club.
By the way, I am very happy that history went this way and I can talk free now.