Excessive posting? ... Interesting.....

[jamespowers]

Hey, man, those Mezcal worms are, like, magical, man! :cool2:

Like dope. They give you flashbacks eh?

 

[Gregg Axley]

You mean because Lincolns are ugly.

Cadillacs are poorly designed copies.
Although I do have a fascination with some of the 70's models.
When are you going to look at the limo?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

The DeVille I was looking at, I planned on offering about 900 bucks for.

Oh Lord! That Alero would give you a heart attack.
Yu can get a decent DeVille here for a few grand and that would be a cheap car to run.

No thank you. Triple black, sure.

I know you want a triple white one.

The only thing I think Lincoln ever did better than Cadillac was the fact that their cars had hideaway lamps. Besides that, Cadillac was the way to go.

Yes, Cadillac is the standard. Lincoln is the left over crumbs.

 

[Zombie_61]

Like dope. They give you flashbacks eh?

Sometimes, yeah. That, and...uhh...what were we talking about?

 

[Gregg Axley]

You were telling us about the story James confided in you earlier.
Dayspring opening for CSN&Y at University of California Santa Barbara. :hippie:

Lincoln was lesser known, because Cadillac was more affordable.
Both suffered in the late 70's.
Although I'll concede that Cadillac had a better variety of colors and fabrics.

 

[jamespowers]

Cadillacs are poorly designed copies.
Although I do have a fascination with some of the 70's models.
When are you going to look at the limo?

Riiiigghhhtt. Cadillac was first and still is. Lincolns are warmed over Tauruses now.

Maybe tomorrow if I get the chance.

 

[jamespowers]

The DeVille I was looking at, I planned on offering about 900 bucks for.



No thank you. Triple black, sure.



The only thing I think Lincoln ever did better than Cadillac was the fact that their cars had hideaway lamps. Besides that, Cadillac was the way to go.

$900 sounds right for a Midwestern car exposed to rust daily.

Triple black? You the mafia now?

Hideaway lamps that get stuck either closed or open. lol lol

 

[jamespowers]

You were telling us about the story James confided in you earlier.
Dayspring opening for CSN&Y at University of California Santa Barbara. :hippie:

Lincoln was lesser known, because Cadillac was more affordable.
Both suffered in the late 70's.
Although I'll concede that Cadillac had a better variety of colors and fabrics.

Cadillac was NOT more affordable. he 57 Brougham was more expensive than anything Lincoln made. The same with the Talisman.

 

[vitanola]

Riiiigghhhtt. Cadillac was first and still is. Lincolns are warmed over Tauruses now.

Maybe tomorrow if I get the chance.

Henry Ford designed the Cadillac, Henry Leland built the Cadillac, then used his experience to get it right when he built the Lincoln.

 

[vitanola]

Cadillac was NOT more affordable. he 57 Brougham was more expensive than anything Lincoln made. The same with the Talisman.

Yes, but remember that the $10,000 Continental Mark II was twice the price of any Cadillac offering until the introduction of the Eldorado Brougham, which at $13, 074 was nore expensive than even the Rolls-Royce Silver Coud, though it did not offer the same value (for example, 60% of the Clouds produced are still in existence, as opposed to perhaps 5% of the Eldorados of the period.

Cadillac produced a good enough car, but where I grew up their machines were considered to be a bit déclassé, being popular amongst touts, successful plumbers, and assorted arrivistes. Established money drove Lincolns or European cars, and "Old Money" drove elderly and not too well maintained Oldsmobiles or Dodges.

 

[Gregg Axley]

Henry Ford designed the Cadillac, Henry Leland built the Cadillac, then used his experience to get it right when he built the Lincoln.

Wow!
Interesting facts Vitanola.
It's game on James.
The Mark II was a wonderful car, but I'll agree that the Mark IV was a far cry from it.
What could have been, if the economy hadn't been bad, for both brands.
Down South we solve arguments in many ways.
One way I know is with an old fashioned pull off.

 

[jamespowers]

Yes, but remember that the $10,000 Continental Mark II was twice the price of any Cadillac offering until the introduction of the Eldorado Brougham, which at $13, 074 was nore expensive than even the Rolls-Royce Silver Coud, though it did not offer the same value (for example, 60% of the Clouds produced are still in existence, as opposed to perhaps 5% of the Eldorados of the period.

Cadillac produced a good enough car, but where I grew up their machines were considered to be a bit déclassé, being popular amongst touts, successful plumbers, and assorted arrivistes. Established money drove Lincolns or European cars, and "Old Money" drove elderly and not too well maintained Oldsmobiles or Dodges.

The Eldorado was a better car that the Mark with much more room and several super nice accessories that Lincoln would have never thought of. Ford has always been to darned cheap to put out a decent luxury car that could compete on a world class level. I don't know how much experience you have with the Silver Clouds of the period but they are the most tempermental car I have ever know. There are three speeds ont eh damned things---forward, reverse and breakdown. They spend a lot of time in breakdown and they cost a heck of a lot more to fix that a Brougham. lol lol lol
Cadillacs were driven by presidents and gangsters alike as everyone knew a good car when they drove it.

 

[jamespowers]

Henry Ford designed the Cadillac, Henry Leland built the Cadillac, then used his experience to get it right when he built the Lincoln.

Cadillac is the second oldest American car maker behind Buick. General Motors purchased Cadillac from cheao old Leland because he didn't want to spend the money to make it a world class automobile. Soon after GM took it over it became the world class automobile that it was until the 1980s when everything went wrong partially due to CAFE standards and cheapness using motors that were best used for boats and not full sized cars but that is another story. In six years after largely ridding itself of Leland, it was established as one of America's premier automobiles. Interchangeable parts, precision fits and with mass production made it impossible to beat. Cadillac introduced full electrical systems in their cars---starting, iginition and lighting, full steel roofs when Ford was still using WOOD, decent reliable manual transmissions, first American car to win the Dewar Trophy from the Royal Automobile Club of England---twice---once in 1908 and then in 1912, The US army choose them from all competitors for their reliability as staff cars during WW1 etc, etc., etc.
A great history but I disagree completely with the sports cars they produce today. They are not German auto manufacturers and they need to get over it. Produce a luxury car---like the brand was meant to darn it!
Oh and animals are not allowed in my house---any of them.

 

[jamespowers]

Wow!
Interesting facts Vitanola.
It's game on James.
The Mark II was a wonderful car, but I'll agree that the Mark IV was a far cry from it.
What could have been, if the economy hadn't been bad, for both brands.
Down South we solve arguments in many ways.
One way I know is with an old fashioned pull off.
View attachment 8651
View attachment 8652

The Mark was probably the best thing Lincon ever produced but it still wasn't a Cadillac. Too small, not enough style and dash.
The big 500 in that Cadillac would kill the mouse motor in that Lincoln.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I am so with you, here. I want a Cadillac that is a Cadillac, and they haven't built one since 1996.

A great history but I disagree completely with the sports cars they produce today. They are not German auto manufacturers and they need to get over it. Produce a luxury car---like the brand was meant to darn it!
Oh and animals are not allowed in my house---any of them.

Well, I am just looking for a winter beater and something the girlfriend can use. Her Dodge has a bad transmission, go figure.

I looked forever for a triple black Fleetwood Brougham, before I bought my Dark Cherry Metallic one. I do love mob movies lol

I didn't say they were a flawless design, but they looked neat when they worked.

$900 sounds right for a Midwestern car exposed to rust daily.

Triple black? You the mafia now?

Hideaway lamps that get stuck either closed or open. lol lol

 

[vitanola]

Cadillac is the second oldest American car maker behind Buick. General Motors purchased Cadillac from cheao old Leland because he didn't want to spend the money to make it a world class automobile. Soon after GM took it over it became the world class automobile that it was until the 1980s when everything went wrong partially due to CAFE standards and cheapness using motors that were best used for boats and not full sized cars but that is another story. In six years after largely ridding itself of Leland, it was established as one of America's premier automobiles. Interchangeable parts, precision fits and with mass production made it impossible to beat. Cadillac introduced full electrical systems in their cars---starting, iginition and lighting, full steel roofs when Ford was still using WOOD, decent reliable manual transmissions, first American car to win the Dewar Trophy from the Royal Automobile Club of England---twice---once in 1908 and then in 1912, The US army choose them from all competitors for their reliability as staff cars during WW1 etc, etc., etc.
A great history but I disagree completely with the sports cars they produce today. They are not German auto manufacturers and they need to get over it. Produce a luxury car---like the brand was meant to darn it!
Oh and animals are not allowed in my house---any of them.

You've never driven an early Cadillac, have you? The early Leyland-Built one-cylinder cadillac cars were long-running, smooth and dauntless, though by'08 the design was definitely out-of-date. On the other hand the early V-8 machines are in no way a treat to drive, with odd vibrations at various speeds. A nice Buick is a much more pleasant machine, not to mention the real high-end cars of the day, such as a Moon, Roamer, or any one of the 3 "P's".

The '08 Dewar Trophy was won by the one-lung Leyland-built machine. Leyland advertised high precision, and as a demonstration three Model K machines were taken from dealer stock, dismantled down to the last screw, their parts were scrambled and three vehicles were assembled from the pile of parts. The prize was awarded for the Leland's implementation of the concept of absolute interchangeability of parts.

The 1912 Dewar Trophy was awarded for the starting and lighting system which had been developed for Cadillac by an outside contractor, Charles Kettering, at Henry Leland's request.

By the way, you are far off the mark about car bodies. General Motors was still using old-fashioned composite (wood) bodies ten years after Ford went with all-steel construction, in 1925. Of course Ford did not pioneer in this field. Dodge Brothers was using steel bodies from 1915. General Motors made a big deal about their "Steel Turret Top" when they finally went over to steel construction in 1937. Ford had been all steel since 1925 (save for the Fordor Sedans, which being low volume models had their bodies bought in from other coachbuilders including Fisher Body, and so used antiquated methods of construction.

Cadiallac was not the only choice of the Army for staff cars. Winton and White also received large orders. In fact, White was the primary contractor. White passed the order on to Cadillac and Winton simply because they received a larger (and more profitable) order for trucks, and did not have the capacity to produce the necessary number of both.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I had a 32 Chevrolet, and it needed a wood skeleton to make the body rigid.
The Ford was a bit more solid, a friend of mine has 2 from that period and can attest to this fact.
Of course my Essex is all steel, with wood for tacking trim to, and wood panels for the floor.
Then again it was made in February of 29, when the country still had money.

Cadillac had a larger engine, but the power was very similar in the early 70's.
The 1971 460 was rated at 365 HP with 500lb torque.
The 1971 500 was rated at 345 HP with 500lb torque.
There was also a 500 rated at 365 HP with 535 torque.
Very similar, and the weights were similar too.
It all comes down to interior, and features.


Something sparkly for Mae.

From Motor Trend in 1971...

Motor Trend magazine's "King of the Hill" feature returned for 1971, pitting the Mark III and the Eldorado against one another. Written by John Lamm, the article favored the Eldorado in several areas, including interior arrangement and instrument layout. However, Lamm found the bright fabrics of the Eldorado to be less favorable than the leather in the Mark III. Regarding Eldorado styling, new for 1971, Lamm mentioned the "more cluttered design that involves extra bulges, a big chrome 'scoop' on the side and that rear quarter window." 1971 would be the first year of the Eldorado "coach window", a trend that the Continental offering would follow for 1972. Lamm also made note of the Mark III's "smooth, clean, though boxy" styling for 1971, and criticized Eldorado on its finish, which ranked much lower than the Mark III on items such as the padded top, and in areas such as the visibly shoddy assembly.

The article went on to note the Eldorado's ability to use the new lead-free gasoline, while the Mark, with a higher compression ratio, still required premium. Cadillac received points for better braking performance, and the difference in price was mentioned, with the Eldo being around $1,000 less than the Mark. However, equipped comparably, the price difference was minimal. Lamm said, "The Mark III still comes off like the family that has lived gracefully for years with its money, while the Eldorado feels like 'nouveau riche' trying so hard to tell the world it's wealthy." The folks at Cadillac must have been very unhappy when they read that!

The Mark III won the "King of the Hill" contest for 1971, a fact that Lincoln may have predicted when it stated: "People want this car because it is something better. And so today, this car stands alone. First in luxury, prestige and value."

 

[jamespowers]

You've never driven an early Cadillac, have you? The early Leyland-Built one-cylinder cadillac cars were long-running, smooth and dauntless, though by'08 the design was definitely out-of-date. On the other hand the early V-8 machines are in no way a treat to drive, with odd vibrations at various speeds. A nice Buick is a much more pleasant machine, not to mention the real high-end cars of the day, such as a Moon, Roamer, or any one of the 3 "P's".

The '08 Dewar Trophy was won by the one-lung Leyland-built machine. Leyland advertised high precision, and as a demonstration three Model K machines were taken from dealer stock, dismantled down to the last screw, their parts were scrambled and three vehicles were assembled from the pile of parts. The prize was awarded for the Leland's implementation of the concept of absolute interchangeability of parts.

The 1912 Dewar Trophy was awarded for the starting and lighting system which had been developed for Cadillac by an outside contractor, Charles Kettering, at Henry Leland's request.

By the way, you are far off the mark about car bodies. General Motors was still using old-fashioned composite (wood) bodies ten years after Ford went with all-steel construction, in 1925. Of course Ford did not pioneer in this field. Dodge Brothers was using steel bodies from 1915. General Motors made a big deal about their "Steel Turret Top" when they finally went over to steel construction in 1937. Ford had been all steel since 1925 (save for the Fordor Sedans, which being low volume models had their bodies bought in from other coachbuilders including Fisher Body, and so used antiquated methods of construction.

Cadiallac was not the only choice of the Army for staff cars. Winton and White also received large orders. In fact, White was the primary contractor. White passed the order on to Cadillac and Winton simply because they received a larger (and more profitable) order for trucks, and did not have the capacity to produce the necessary number of both.

I'll take early V-8 followed by the V-16 and the V12.

As I said Cadillac won. Both times.

I didn't say whole bodies, I said roofs.

Yeah, White was so great they couldn't keep up but Cadillac could at a high level of quality.

 

[jamespowers]

I had a 32 Chevrolet, and it needed a wood skeleton to make the body rigid.
The Ford was a bit more solid, a friend of mine has 2 from that period and can attest to this fact.
Of course my Essex is all steel, with wood for tacking trim to, and wood panels for the floor.
Then again it was made in February of 29, when the country still had money.

Cadillac had a larger engine, but the power was very similar in the early 70's.
The 1971 460 was rated at 365 HP with 500lb torque.
The 1971 500 was rated at 345 HP with 500lb torque.
There was also a 500 rated at 365 HP with 535 torque.
Very similar, and the weights were similar too.
It all comes down to interior, and features.


Something sparkly for Mae.
View attachment 8665
From Motor Trend in 1971...

I never trust Motor Trend or Car and Driver. Both of those dolt magazines are responsible for the ugly boxy European looking American cars because their ratings were not geared for luxury car but sports cars. They couldn’t grade a luxury car to save their lives as they were biased. Fools like Cadillac followed along and now we have nasty monochromatic dumpsters on the road. Nothing they say is worth one red cent to me.
The Lincoln was a slab sided ugly car that was just trying to keep up with Cadillac as it introduced new feature after new feature---Lincoln me tooed it all the way for 100 years and now they metooed it into ugly right along with the rest.

 

[jamespowers]

I am so with you, here. I want a Cadillac that is a Cadillac, and they haven't built one since 1996.



Well, I am just looking for a winter beater and something the girlfriend can use. Her Dodge has a bad transmission, go figure.

I looked forever for a triple black Fleetwood Brougham, before I bought my Dark Cherry Metallic one. I do love mob movies lol

I didn't say they were a flawless design, but they looked neat when they worked.

You have to go to the big SUV to even come close anymore. At least you have room in it then.
A Dodge that is falling apart. Now there is an unusual occurrence. lol lol lol Must have been made in the last twenty years.

I figured you liked the mob thing. lol lol

They can fix that damned junk set up Ford produced to make hidden headlights now with modern electrically operated doors. That vacuum stuff etc. must have been created in a dope smoke haze.
The new electric ones operate fast too. It is funny to see them operate when you remember how wonky the originals were and how slowly they opened.