Engel & Co. Hats

[moontheloon]

so I was cruising around the internet last night searching up hats and doing some research when I came across a picture of a beautiful hat made by Engel & Co.

I decided to contact Nicholas Engel for some information ... this is the response I got very shortly after contacting him

"...I charge $900 flat for a Fedora or Homburg. All of them are made out of 100% Beaver Belly Fur.
The liner are pure fine silk. The sweats are roan leather sheepskin.
My lead time is 2-4 weeks "

that almost knocked me off my couch ....

would any of you pay $900 for any hat ?

I'm not sure I would open my wallet in that fashion for the very first Vita Felt Whippet off the line and dipped in gold.... or a Stetson 100 worn by 7 Presidents or made specifically for president Truman

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this matter

I'd especially like to hear from our resident hat makers such as Art Fawcett, John Penman, Michael Gannon , TonyB and the like

I am pretty sure Nicholas is a member here by the name of metropd

I mean no disrespect at all ... I just found it quite odd that he so casually threw out that price

especially when any of us could get a Penman or VS for half that price and less ... and a beautiful Gannon for almost 1/4 of that price

I mean ... we sit here and talk about the prices on the vintage market getting out of control for Whippets and such .... what about guys like this in the custom market?

thoughts ?

 

[Frunobulax]

Well, Art Fawcett will sell you $1,000 hat, and Optimo's prices can get up there, that's for sure. This is just spitballing, but perhaps he's just intentionally targeting the high-end market? He wouldn't be the first to tackle that business model. There are discussions on here about such prices, and it must be noted that Western has, particularly show hats, can go for several thousand $$$.

Elon Musk doesn't offer a lower end model of Tesla, either. You're supposed to go get a Chevy if you don't want to pay for a Tesla.

Caveat: I have no idea of the quality of one of this gentlemen's hats. I'm assuming he can back it up!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Anthony is difficult to give answers on the price about work of another person.
I believe that the lack of consistency of the production of hats in the world is the main factor for which there are individual hatters.
Almost all the hats that run on FL are the work of large and medium companies (past and present), very few are made by individual hatters.
This is because the creation of the hats was the principal goal of the hats companies and the maintaining of the hats was in charge of the hatters mostly operating in the hats shops.
When the hats market failed and the companies simply survive lacked quality, the few lovers of quality hats has no makers.
The quality is now or in vintage hats or in hatters, although I doubt they reach the peaks of the companies of the past.
I think $ 900 is too much for a hat, but as long as the industry does not produce any decent hats, hatters will dictate their prices to customers who depending from them for alleged product quality.

 

[moontheloon]

just seems odd that someone I have never heard of and can find little to no information on feels that they can charge $900 for a hat

seems like bad business to me

... and I'm sure his hats are nice ... they look great ... but $900 is a mortgage payment ... just seems like balls of steel to me for someone with little to no reputation
... this is a business of reputation if you ask me

 

[buler]

Moon, you are correct. Nicholas is metropd. The felt he uses is fepsa. You can see a picture of the hat bodies on his facebook page. He does have a website, http://www.engelhatters.com/. I don't know much else about these. Judging from his past postings, I don't believe he makes the hats. Not sure if he has ever divulged which hatmaker builds them for him. I have also never seen a review of one of his hats. Perhaps the pricing scares off most lounge members.

B

 

[moontheloon]

Moon, you are correct. Nicholas is metropd. The felt he uses is fepsa. You can see a picture of the hat bodies on his facebook page. He does have a website, http://www.engelhatters.com/. I don't know much else about these. Judging from his past postings, I don't believe he makes the hats. Not sure if he has ever divulged which hatmaker builds them for him. I have also never seen a review of one of his hats. Perhaps the pricing scares off most lounge members.

B

thank you for the info my man... and yeah .. we are now facebook "friends" so I was all over his page snooping

from our discussion it sounded like he makes the hats ... they are very nice

I saw a few pictures of him shaping them ... not that , that means anything

the whole pricing just seems odd to me

 

[Frunobulax]

He's the Timothiescloset of bespoke hats.

 

[moontheloon]

He's the Timothiescloset of bespoke hats.

hahahahahaha!!!

totally ...

his hats are beautiful ... I would love to own one ... that's why I'm so ruffled about the price I guess

and I think he also only makes hats in his one "signature" color ... which I think is another mistake ... but that is just me

i could literally go buy 4 Gannons for that price ... and have money left over to go out to a nice dinner

 

[tommyK]

If he can get people to pay that, good for him. I agree with You, Moon it seems like a recipe for failure. I wouldn't buy one for the same reason I would never buy an Optimo. Fepsa felt, while good by modern standards just doesn't compare to most vintage hats. I'll continue to spend my money on the best vintage hats I can get and the occasional new hat like an Akubra which is at a price point that makes it worth it to me.

 

[tommyK]

This may seem knit-pickey but for $900 he should have something better than just cheap block letters on the sweatband

something more like;

or

 

[Bamaboots]

Don't know anything about him or his hats but I used to lurk around Styleforum and he posted a shot of himself in his hat stating it was an example from his new hat company. This was in 11/14. Good looking hat but $900.00 . I stopped visiting there because it became obvious to me that so many there believed $$$ spent = style and quality.

 

[moontheloon]

I agree guys

I also hope I am not coming off like I am $h*t talking Nicholas ... Not my intention at all

As I've said... His hats are very nice...at a more reasonable price point they would probably move nicely

We all know what those felt bodies cost
I can assume what the liner material and sweat band material cost....add ribbon
...and even if I inflate those prices significantly for profit and factor in way more labor than would ever go into making a hat I for the life of me cannot find how $900 becomes practical let alone reasonable

And this is coming from someone who spends a ton of money on hats

Maybe one of the hat makers here... Or even Nicholas himself could help me justify this


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[DJH]

Personally, I love the hat Nicholas makes, although I've not bought one. I do have a fantastic Borsalino that I bought from him (I bought an Optimo from him as well, but passed that one along).

I do believe Nicholas is making the hats, but also at least some were made by Worth & Worth in NY. I don't know if this is still the case, but W&W also sold these hats at one time under their own brand.

Nicholas spent a long time searching for his perfect fedora hat and this project seemed to grow out of that. I really like the style of his hats, but his pricing (even though people are buying them) isn't for me.

 

[RJR]

No intention of beating this to death but we have several Loungers,free to price their own product,that feel they can build fine bespoke hats for 50/75% less.I know where I'll be.

 

[Lotsahats]

No, I wouldn't pay that much for a hat. I could get three from Bob Jessee at that price. The most I ever paid for a hat was a for my Knox 100, and it wasn't even that much.

Cheers,
A

 

[Frunobulax]

We all know what those felt bodies cost
I can assume what the liner material and sweat band material cost....add ribbon
...and even if I inflate those prices significantly for profit and factor in way more labor than would ever go into making a hat I for the life of me cannot find how $900 becomes practical let alone reasonable

And this is coming from someone who spends a ton of money on hats

Maybe one of the hat makers here... Or even Nicholas himself could help me justify this
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a really nice box...

 

[hatophile]

Some drive Mercedes or Porsches, some drive Fords or Hondas. I'm a Ford/Honda man myself.

 

[Strapped-4-Cache]

Some drive Mercedes or Porsches, some drive Fords or Hondas. I'm a Ford/Honda man myself.

My kids make sure I stay in the Ford/Honda group.

 

[hatophile]

My kids make sure I stay in the Ford/Honda group.

Ha, same for my dogs...

 

[belfastboy]

I am making a leap and asking this question in this thread. Curious about the economics of hat making; how much does a rabbit blank felt cost (or a beaver) and how many hours does an experienced hatter put into each hat? I hesitate to say this but the prices that Gannon or Mike at NW Hats seem like a great bargain. Would anyone speculate on how much profit exists in each hat after the hard costs are factored?