Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[Omne]

Can anyone explain this?

Several possible explanations. Something came up and he/she thought they might not be able to afford the bid but found out they could. They may have had buyers remorse and then second thoughts. Their spouse may have found out about the first bid, hit them and made them withdraw the bid and then left the house......

 

[Flipped Lid]

Unethical or not, it's a little shady. It sounds to me like the original high bidder only accomplished exposing your high bid so that he or anyone else could gauge just how high they needed to go. I mean, just how far past your 107 was the original high bid?

It was $109.00, so only $2.00. After he withdrew his bid, I became the high bidder at the time at $51.00 although I still had my limit set at $107.00, which is the most I wanted to pay. I don't really know what his strategy was and there might have been none at all Omne notes below. If I get a little more active on eBay, I will sooner or later learn the tricks of the trade, I suppose. I've seen some very nice hats sold on here at bargain prices in just the short few weeks I've been around, just nothing that I've been interested in that will fit around my thick skull thus far. I'm anxious to get a nice hat or two for somewhere in the $100 range until I can afford to have what I want custom made. I just need to exercise some restraint and not overpay for something. Thanks to everyone for the responses. The wealth of knowledge in this place is nothing short of amazing.

 

[T Rick]

I tried to buy my very first felt fedora, but fell short. If this had been gray or charcoal in color, I might have hung in there a little longer, but my suits and sport coats are largely blue or gray shades and I wouldn't have had an opportunity to wear it that much. It did look like a nice vintage hat, though. It also struck me that with freight, the price would be over one-fourth of the way toward my Art Fawcett custom-made. I'll keep my eyes peeled and find something decent for fifty or sixty dollars to wear in the meantime.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230643547597



I'm not particularly well-schooled in the ways of eBay, but I observed something that I thought appeared unethical. Maybe I just don't understand the process. I ran my bid up to $107.00 for the hat, still didn't have the winning bid, and decided to bow out. Earlier this afternoon I received a message that the current winning bidder had withdrawn his bid and that I was now winning with a bid of $51.00. I checked back in this evening and the same bidder who had withdrawn his bid earlier in the day was again winning with a bid of $109.00. I didn't want to go any higher and he won the hat. I don't know if he thought I'd go in and lower my maximum bid and not pay anymore attention so he'd get the hat cheaper or what, but I thought it was very strange that he'd withdraw his bid and just a few hours later submit the same bid again. Can anyone explain this?

Well, the bid may have been retracted, and you may then have been outbid again (hard for us to say, as the bid history shown at the end of the auction has been adjusted and will not reflect any bids that were retracted). It is possible you could have won this one in the mid two figure digits on a given day, but unlikely. A decent Playboy, properly marked in the ad will be missed by few, and is likely to break $100. This one was not won by a Sniper* (either manually or software submitted), the winning bid was submitted nearly an hour before auction close (*if you click on the number of bids, you will get a screen with the bid history).

One thing I will tell you, take it with whatever grains of salt you wish, if you want to increase your chances/percentage of winning auctions on eBay (and minimize your cost of items won), only bid in the closing seconds of the auction. By bidding high earlier, or by engaging in a back and forth bidding war with another and submitting several successively higher bids, you are simply allowing your maximum bid to be a "target" for others to discover (as may have happened here, they may have bid past your max to see where it was, then retracted their bid, which exposed your max not only to them, but to others watching), or you drive the price up beyond what you may have had to pay. By bidding in the last seconds (aka "Sniping'), you leave no time for anyone to "react" to your bid, only those who decided on a higher max than you at some point (including Snipes) will beat you. This in neither unethical nor unsound, and is the way MANY experienced eBayer's do it. Check the bid history on several popular items to see the proof.

I'm the one that was confused. I assume you got the message after the auction closed. If you got it before the auction closed then you just got an email from Ebay trying to drum up more bids. If you were at $107 and lost it at $109, then you were sniped (beaten by a computer program that bids in the final seconds of the auction.) Still not unethical. Sometimes I wish they would make people pay 10 cents for emails. It sure would clear out the spam.

Wow, 10 ¢ per email. I love it! Best idea I've head in a long time, it would eliminate Spam.

Unethical or not, it's a little shady. It sounds to me like the original high bidder only accomplished exposing your high bid so that he or anyone else could gauge just how high they needed to go. I mean, just how far past your 107 was the original high bid?

Obviously, we can't know that, as the next Bidder's maximum was never uncovered (as far as we know, though it could have been the winning number of $109.50). But I agree, someone did expose his, and that would have been visible to all bidding (an experienced eBayer might have then added a token bit more to the bid, though it would have still been obvious that he'd added something to it when checking bid history).

I once had a bidder bid successively up in $10 increments on a watch to expose my max. Once they'd bid past my max, they retracted their bid. But it gets better. They then bid again, bidding a max of just under my max. I was livid. They exposed my max bid and forced me to pay it. I complained to eBay of a Shill, they claimed they saw no evidence of a shill. These days, I'd have refused to pay, insisting they either sell to the other bidder at his max, or to me at my max before any of his bids (the highest legitimate bid). I'd still probably get a non-paying bidder strike against me, but I could live with it under those circumstances. Of course, these days it probably wouldn't happen, as I seldom bid (more than a token or placeholder bid) before the last 10 seconds.

 

[HatsEnough]

One thing I will tell you, take it with whatever grains of salt you wish, if you want to increase your chances/percentage of winning auctions on eBay (and minimize your cost of items won), only bid in the closing seconds of the auction.

I couldn't agree with this more. I drives me nuts when a guy just throws in his highest bid on his first bid and 5 days before the auction is over. All that does is tempt other buyers to keep throwing in bid after bid to feel out what your highest bid was. This unnecessarily drives up the price of the item.

Wait until the last seconds and then throw in your highest bid. This far more often results in lower prices for the item.

There really is absolutely no reason to bid on anything before the last few seconds of an auction.

 

[DJH]

I don't use eBay much, but my plan is usually the same if there is something I want to buy.

First put in a bid for the minimum amount. I hope this will discourage the seller from ending the auction and doing a deal with someone. Even if it doesn't I hope it makes him feel guilty.

Next set a snipe for the amount I'm prepared to pay.

Relax and see what happens.

 

[T Rick]

I couldn't agree with this more. I drives me nuts when a guy just throws in his highest bid on his first bid and 5 days before the auction is over. All that does is tempt other buyers to keep throwing in bid after bid to feel out what your highest bid was. This unnecessarily drives up the price of the item.

Wait until the last seconds and then throw in your highest bid. This far more often results in lower prices for the item.

There really is absolutely no reason to bid on anything before the last few seconds of an auction.

With one exception. A Seller can cancel an auction if there are no bids with 12 hours to go. If it is a low starting bid, I've been known to thrown in the first bid at the opening (or just a hair above it) in order to see that it's not simply removed and relisted (with possibly a better chance of attracting more competitio.... er, I mean bidders ).

 

[HatsEnough]

First put in a bid for the minimum amount. I hope this will discourage the seller from ending the auction and doing a deal with someone. Even if it doesn't I hope it makes him feel guilty.

A good idea, too.

 

[fmw]

Actually, I think sniping or bidding in the last seconds is pointless. The product goes to the highest bidder whether he was the first one or a last second sniper. If you bid your miaximum on day one, you can forget about and do other things with your life. The bid will be whatever the starting bid is.
any subsequent bids that are below your maximum will raise the current bid but not affect your ability to win. If someone snipes at the end and their maximum is below yours, they still won't win. The highest bidder wins.

The purpose of sniping is get a bid in late enough so that competitors don't have time to respond. If you put your maximum bid in the first place, it doesn't matter what the competitors do. If they bid higher than your max, they will win. If they don't they will lose, regardless of when the bid was placed and you will get the product for whatever the current high bid is whether it is at or below your maximum.

 

[danofarlington]

Actually, I think sniping or bidding in the last seconds is pointless. The product goes to the highest bidder whether he was the first one or a last second sniper.

I disagree about that strategy. If you shoot your whole spending power early in the process, it gives the market time to adjust upward to your bid. Even if competitors don't want to pay your price at first, they can get used to the idea. On the other hand, if you post a high price in the last hour or the last five minutes, it may demoralize the others and leave you with the item.

 

[fmw]

A good idea, too.

A better idea is to bid your max. The current bid will still be the minimum and you will still win it at that price if there are no other bidders. If it goes beyond your max, then so be it. You didn't want it above your max anyway.

 

[alanfgag]

kool kap... not mine.

 

[fmw]

I disagree about that strategy. If you shoot your whole spending power early in the process, it gives the market time to adjust upward to your bid. Even if competitors don't want to pay your price at first, they can get used to the idea. On the other hand, if you post a high price in the last hour or the last five minutes, it may demoralize the others and leave you with the item.

You don't shoot your spending power at all. You just bid your max. People aren't adjusting upward to your max. They are bidding somewhere between your max and the current bid, thereyby raising the current bid. There is no way around the fact that the high bid wins.

 

[HatsEnough]

You don't shoot your spending power at all.

You most certainly do. In fact, always bidding your top dollar early in the auction guarantees you'll always pay your top dollar or that you will lose the auction. It is pretty silly to always cost yourself your top dollar when if you play the game smarter you'll often get it for less! I mean, it would be like being at a flea market and having a guy tell you he'll sell you an item for $20 and you replying that you'd actually pay $50! Kind of absurd to cost yourself money if you don't have to.

I can't tell you how many hats I'd have gone much higher on but got it cheaper because I was not so silly as to pump in my higher dollar bid.

The thing is, the earlier you bid the sooner others start to bid to feel out how high you went up to. It's a pretty simple formula, really. Does it always work? No. Sometimes you still end up with your top dollar bid. But if you always pump in a high dollar bid you are certain to never get a cheaper deal.

Finally, let me hope fmw, that your hat size is much bigger than mine. I'd prefer not to be bidding against someone that unnecessarily pumps prices up to absurd levels ten seconds after someone starts an auction!

 

[Saint-Just]

I agree with Hatsenough.
I'll try and illustrate with a simple, 2 bidders situation. Item starting price is $20. Your top bid is $50

Scenario 1: You bid your $50 early on. You hold with $20. Bidder 2 is tentative: he tries $25 (you hold $26), $30, $35, etc. he stops at $46. You win for $48.

Scenario 2: you do not bid, so he'll bid first. If, like you, he bids his max, one of you will win paying top dollar. If he follows the same bidding pattern, he may only bid $20 or $25. By bidding your $50 at the last second you'll win for $26 or $27, having placed the same bid; only timing varies.

As I said, if you are facing somebody who places his max bid early on, price will be on the high side. But bidding earlier would bring no advantage.
However, if you look at many bidding histories, you will see that most will bid repeatedly, in small increments, and they stop when the digits go "green" in their summary, or when they've reached their maximum. It's a psychological thing, they need to feel they are "winning". The earlier they stop, the better for you. And if you bid early you're the reason they don't stop.

 

[zetwal]

In fact, always bidding your top dollar early in the auction guarantees you'll always pay your top dollar or that you will lose the auction. [...]

This is not true.

 

[Lefty]

kool kap... not mine.

That's pretty fantastic.

 

[T Rick]

FMW, while your statement that "There is no way around the fact that the high bid wins" is 100% correct, your theory that it does not matter is flawed, it most certainly does. I guaranty you that those who follow your idea will not only spend a higher percentage of their maximum bid more often, they will also win less auctions. With the time factor of a bid being there for people to "nudge up", and feel out, eventually some will discern the top bid and outbid it on certain items (not everyone is sensible enough to set their maximum in advance as you suggest, some get caught in a "fever", or the heat of the auction, and bid higher than they would if there was not a target there). They also get caught in the "gotta have this one" frame of mind, and go overboard bidding. Happens all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I do set my max early on, and I do go on with my life. This is why I started using a sniper service, after missing out on several auctions I'd intended to bid on (which were after several I'd bid on early, only to be out bid at some point.

Yes, the highest bidder always wins. But bidding late is a far more successful means of assuring you are that high bidder on a larger number of auctions (and as a bonus, you often can get the item for less than you would have otherwise).

Another example, I just bought a very nice Stratoliner two weeks ago today. I set my max in my sniping service early on at $220 and change. I ended up winning the auction for $103.51. I have NO doubt that had I placed the same bid with eBay early on, that hat would have cost me MUCH more IF I even got it (I suspect I would have been out bid).

 

[zetwal]

kool kap... not mine.

Interesting. We have a new member that digs leather caps. I wonder if he bought it. Good chance we will know one way or another soon enough.

 

[fmw]

Rick. Do whatever you like. In my experience bidding with a sniping program lost as many auctions as bidding my max whenever. What do you do with a sniping program? Well, you bid you max. The only difference is when you bid it. Again, the purpose of a sniping program is to prevent people from follow up gids. If you bid your max, then follow up bids won't matter. You will win or lose depending on who has the higher max. Do whatever you like. I see no logical advantage at all to sniping. I found no advantage when I tried it myself. If it works for you then that's great.

 

[fmw]

I agree with Hatsenough.
I'll try and illustrate with a simple, 2 bidders situation. Item starting price is $20. Your top bid is $50

Scenario 1: You bid your $50 early on. You hold with $20. Bidder 2 is tentative: he tries $25 (you hold $26), $30, $35, etc. he stops at $46. You win for $48.

Scenario 2: you do not bid, so he'll bid first. If, like you, he bids his max, one of you will win paying top dollar. If he follows the same bidding pattern, he may only bid $20 or $25. By bidding your $50 at the last second you'll win for $26 or $27, having placed the same bid; only timing varies.

As I said, if you are facing somebody who places his max bid early on, price will be on the high side. But bidding earlier would bring no advantage.
However, if you look at many bidding histories, you will see that most will bid repeatedly, in small increments, and they stop when the digits go "green" in their summary, or when they've reached their maximum. It's a psychological thing, they need to feel they are "winning". The earlier they stop, the better for you. And if you bid early you're the reason they don't stop.

Well, you may be right or you may be wrong. The problem with your argument is that you have defined some scanrios designed to bolster your point. There is no reason to think that what you suggest happens a majority of the time, if at all. Feel free to bid whenever you like. It is fine with me.