Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[deadlyhandsome]

It's on eBay. Another thing that caught my eye was a prerty good description of the "X conundrum":


Vintage (1970s) 5X Silverbelly Beaver Stetson Cowboy Hat In Excellent professionally restored condition

Size: 7 1/4, 55 cm, Brim: 3 1/2", Crown: 5" Fancy Gus Crease

Original box not included due to excessive shipping costs for large sized packages.

Lightweight and stiff with a fancy Gus crease 5" crown and half round curve 3 1/2" brim. Size is an accurate 7 1/4 measuring 58 cm. This professionally restored vintage 5X Stetson hat is from the 1970s.

My 3 step restoration process starts with a deep cleaning to remove any stains or odors. Then each hat is reblocked tight to return it to its original open crowned and flat brimmed form. If the leather sweatband is found to be brittle, cracked or damaged it’s reinforced with a backing strip. By preserving rather the original sweatband the important brand and quality information is retained. Then each hat is steam shaped and stiffened with a professional grade shellac solution. Finally a cleaned liner is installed and a hat band applied.

I’m frequently asked what the Xs mean. In short, the whole X thing is a can of worms. Xs are supposed to tell you how much beaver is in the hat, but it’s not that simple. The oldest hats, which are often the best, don’t have Xs because back in the day hat makers relied on price to communicate quality. When they did start using Xs the top end hats had far fewer Xs than the industry uses today, and the number of Xs has always varied by manufacturer. For example, when Stetson started using Xs their top end hat was 3X, and Resistol's best hat was marked X Double X. Unfortunately when some other manufactures jumped on the X bandwagon they went straight to putting 10Xs on their inferior hats, so Stetson and Resistol followed suit and the X race was on. Now Stetson is up to 1,000 Xs for their top tier hats, but a modern 1000X Stetson has more chemicals and less real beaver fur than their 3X hats made 80 or 100 years ago.

So when evaluating the quality of a vintage hat there's no sure-fire way of knowing what the Xs really mean. All we really know is that hats of the same brand made the same year will have more Xs as the quality goes up and when comparing two hats of the same brand the older hat may be better even if it has fewer Xs. Experienced collectors can tell by handling a hat if the beaver content is high and just ignore the Xs. As a fairly well experienced collector I do my best to describe the hats I sell as accurately as possible.

But why Beaver? Beaver produces a water tight, light weight and very resilient felt that holds its shape exceptionally well, but beaver fur is expensive so rabbit is actually the most commonly used fur. Rabbit felt is soft and strong but lacks the microscopic barbs that give beaver its superior qualities so rabbit felt needs to be thicker for the hat to hold its shape. The cheapest material is wool, which I'd describe as filler. So aside from a few exotics such as nutria, otter and sable, felt quality is determined by how much beaver, rabbit and wool goes into the hat, with the best hats using only beaver and rabbit fur because if you've ever been caught out in the rain wearing a wool hat you've learned the hard way how wool hats can melt on your face when they get wet enough.

There are a lot of inaccuracies in his writings.

 

[BobHufford]

I had never seen a crease like this before

Maybe I sit through too many of my wife's murder shows, but that looks like a woman's torso with with the legs missing.

 

[StoryPNW]

I think you'll like it. It's one of Resistol's OR clones along with the San Antonio and Wide Country. They don't show up that often. There are a couple posted around the lounge. Looks to be in good shape.

What is the quality like on these? The price tag says it was a $20 hat, but no 3x or any other indication of quality.

 

[Bamaboots]

What is the quality like on these? The price tag says it was a $20 hat, but no 3x or any other indication of quality.

I just don’t know. My only Resistol’s are an old Beaver 25 OR type and a 3X San An. I did find an old post where someone mentions their 3X Dalworth.

 

[StoryPNW]

I just don’t know. My only Resistol’s are an old Beaver 25 OR type and a 3X San An. I did find an old post where someone mentions their 3X Dalworth.

I guess we will find out when it gets here. My San Antonio is a Three X hat as well. I haven't found much specific info about the Dalworth hats and how they compare to the San Antonio hats.

 

[StoryPNW]

I just don’t know. My only Resistol’s are an old Beaver 25 OR type and a 3X San An. I did find an old post where someone mentions their 3X Dalworth.

I found a reference to a Dalworth in the Miller Stockman thread, 1972 Catalog. The liner wouldn't still say BR in 1972 would it?

Post in thread 'Miller-Stockman Catalogs' https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/miller-stockman-catalogs.52929/post-1519828

 

[M Hatman]

Curiosity got the best of me, this BR Western Dalworth is headed my way.
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Glad to see someone here got that! I was trying to keep an eye on that auction but got tied up in a meeting and forgot...

 

[wsmontana]

I guess we will find out when it gets here. My Santonio is a Three X hat as well. I haven't found much specific info about the Dalworth hats and how they compare to the San Antonio hats.

Like yours, mine has a $20 price tag and no X markings. I would guess that your 3X will be a step up in quality. Mine is hand-shapable but a bit stiff and requires a some steam to remove bumps and creases. Mine is very comfortable and I think a great looking every day type of hat.

 

[StoryPNW]

Like yours, mine has a $20 price tag and no X markings. I would guess that your 3X will be a step up in quality. Mine is hand-shapable but a bit stiff and requires a some steam to remove bumps and creases. Mine is very comfortable and I think a great looking every day type of hat.

How did you end up creasing yours? Did you put the cattleman's crease in it?

 

[wsmontana]

How did you end up creasing yours? Did you put the cattleman's crease in it?

It is currently shaped as a pinch front and I wear it with the front brim snapped down.

 

[Pkyoakum]

Ebay purchase from Randall. Nice Stetson late 50s - early 60s Whippet style. Beautiful hat in pristine condition. I am mostly a vintage Borsalino guy, but this lid is pretty much as nice as my vintage Borsas.

 

[Rmccamey]

Very nice hat.

Ebay purchase from Randall. Nice Stetson late 50s - early 60s Whippet style. Beautiful hat in pristine condition. I am mostly a vintage Borsalino guy, but this lid is pretty much as nice as my vintage Borsas. View attachment 565521 View attachment 565522 View attachment 565523 View attachment 565524

 

[drmaxtejeda]

I just won this Stetson Medalist 1940s. In my size, for a change. Who is rocket_no9 on eBay? I remember it was a FL member.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

There are a lot of inaccuracies in his writings.

Yes, but I like the way he talks about the Xs.

 

[Pkyoakum]

I just won this Stetson Medalist 1940s. In my size, for a change. Who is rocket_no9 on eBay? I remember it was a FL member.
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Do you understand what Vita Felt means? Is it any different from regular fur hats?

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Do you understand what Vita Felt means? Is it any different from regular fur hats?

You can read about it in this old Stetson ad

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Yes, but I like the way he talks about the Xs.

His discussion of Xs was one of the parts that was full of inaccuracies.

 

[BobHufford]

View attachment 565730

That ad (from the 1960s?) states that it is a new DuPont process. Was it a different thing in the 1940s/50s?

 

[drmaxtejeda]

His discussion of Xs was one of the parts that was full of inaccuracies.

Oh! Hmmm.... embarrassing. Please teach me which, Brent.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

That ad (from the 1960s?) states that it is a new DuPont process. Was it a different thing in the 1940s/50s?

I don't know.