Eastman A2 versus Gibson Barnes A2

[Seb Lucas]

I continue to find it interesting that there are those who want supreme authenticity and yet want a size other than a regular, when the original A-2 jacket was only produced in regular fittings. I'm not passing judgment on these individuals and I do understand there's a difference between paying for a jacket and being issued one, but I still find it a curiosity since it technically runs against the grain in endeavors for maximum authenticity. It's a bit like buying a hyper-accurate copy of a WWII jeep and wanting air conditioning or power steering and brakes because such features make it more comfortable or drivable. Kinda takes away from the authentic experience and look in my mind.

I hear you but I think that's going too far. You want the jacket to be accurate but for it also to fit. We don't all have period accurate bodies. It's not about power steering and brakes and air con. It's more like being able to adjust the seat further back if you have long legs. That's all.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

The solution is simple, if not obvious. Go to any reputable jacket company and have a one off custom tailored A-2 made. Authentic look, perfect fit.

 

[thor]

WWII flyers would've loved having custom sized A-2's ("I'd like an Eastman russet horsehide A-2 in size 44 extra-long, please").

 

[Seb Lucas]

The solution is simple, if not obvious. Go to any reputable jacket company and have a one off custom tailored A-2 made. Authentic look, perfect fit.

Uh... Yes well that kind of is what this site is about. I think you're preaching to the converted.

 

[Sloan1874]

lol

 

[HoosierDaddy]

 

[Big J]

I hear you but I think that's going too far. You want the jacket to be accurate but for it also to fit. We don't all have period accurate bodies. It's not about power steering and brakes and air con. It's more like being able to adjust the seat further back if you have long legs. That's all.

That's the best analogy I've ever heard on the issue.

 

[Brettafett]

Also, as has been attested too by many who know these things, that WW2 jackets varied a little from production run to production run.
Even jackets of the same contracts seemed to differ. So tweaking a jacket slightly while still retaining authenticity, seems fair game to me.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Uh... Yes well that kind of is what this site is about. I think you're preaching to the converted.

I don't think so. How many here actually do this? Have a custom one off tailored jacket made? In their (your?) dreams, perhaps. My $$$ are better spent elsewhere.

But let's have everyone who has done this chime in right here. We would be curious to learn the results, and the level of satisfaction achieved.

We can start with you...share your custom jacket experience with us. Cost? Fit? Manufacturer?

 

[HPA Rep]

I hear you but I think that's going too far. You want the jacket to be accurate but for it also to fit. We don't all have period accurate bodies. It's not about power steering and brakes and air con. It's more like being able to adjust the seat further back if you have long legs. That's all.

Okay, so having an adjustable seat or telescoping or tilt steering wheel in a hyper-accurate WWII jeep copy would all still be against the grain of total authenticity, as would a left-handed bolt be against the grain of authenticity on a precise copy of an M-1 rifle. If you need or prefer these features, you would have simply persevered with the situation in 1943, hence that's the truly authentic look and experience.

As I said at the outset, this isn't about right or wrong or passing judgement - it's just a curious conversation about a conflict that exists in pursuit of maximum authenticity. Hearing how people perceive and, ultimately, think about this subject and the rationale for or against tampering with authenticity is precisely what I hoped to stimulate. I pay attention to people's logic and enjoy trying to unravel the attendant thought process, especially on a subject that personally like. I am an A-2 lover going back to my childhood and I ask myself what would I do if my body type didn't fit the original design.

 

[HPA Rep]

Exactly! "Shorty" Manch and Jimmy Stewart are two good examples of my point. And Joan Fontaine here could stand some tailoring on her A-2 ...

 

[HPA Rep]

Also, as has been attested too by many who know these things, that WW2 jackets varied a little from production run to production run.
Even jackets of the same contracts seemed to differ. So tweaking a jacket slightly while still retaining authenticity, seems fair game to me.

Yes, there was "slight" variation between original contractors and from the same contractor, but that was unintentional. I'm talking about, for example, intentionally adding 2" of length to the jacket or flaring out the waist area so the purchaser doesn't need to go to the next size, etc.

 

[Seb Lucas]

As I said at the outset, this isn't about right or wrong or passing judgement - it's just a curious conversation about a conflict that exists in pursuit of maximum authenticity. Hearing how people perceive and, ultimately, think about this subject and the rationale for or against tampering with authenticity is precisely what I hoped to stimulate. I pay attention to people's logic and enjoy trying to unravel the attendant thought process, especially on a subject that personally like. I am an A-2 lover going back to my childhood and I ask myself what would I do if my body type didn't fit the original design.

No worries - I never took you as passing judgement I was just fine tuning your comparison. There are so many roads one can go down. You might also argue that some of our best A2 repros are far too well made and tailored to be accurate. I'm a utility jacket guy so I've never owned an A2 and I've been put off the look by the baggy cheaper repros. I'd rather wear my tweed jacket than one of those. When I see your version and other high end A2's I can see the attraction. I'm the right shape for one but I struggle with jackets that have knits.

 

[HPA Rep]

No worries - I never took you as passing judgement I was just fine tuning your comparison. There are so many roads one can go down. You might also argue that some of our best A2 repros are far too well made and tailored to be accurate. I'm a utility jacket guy so I've never owned an A2 and I've been put off the look by the baggy cheaper repros. I'd rather wear my tweed jacket than one of those. When I see your version and other high end A2's I can see the attraction. I'm the right shape for one but I struggle with jackets that have knits.

Thank you for the reply. And you raise yet another good point - the precision with which repro A-2s are made fails to uphold the typically low quality we see in the vintage jackets as made by the lowest bidder using a pool of labor that ranged from experienced to novice and inept. I have to fully agree with you on this point, but the rub is that what was issued in 1942 for utility would, in most instances, be deemed defective by any objective perception today made by a consumer. It would be hard to imagine (but not impossible) any company today wanting to offer that type of authenticity even if it was expressly marketed with detailed info. regarding its purity in authenticity. I'm sure there'd be some ready buyers for such an A-2, but would a company really want such resultant work out on the street being seen by those who know and care nothing for that level of authenticity, thus creating a negative perception of the company's jackets? As much of a purist as I am, I only want that level of authenticity in a vintage jacket.

I hear you on the knit parts; it's something I've listened to from a select few over the years and I'm sure there are more than just a few who don't care for knit on jackets, which is why we offer some styles that lack any knit at all.

As for tweed jackets, you'll get no arguments from me on that. I have three Harris Tweed sport coats and one HT overcoat (had that made as a b'day present to myself in 1987).

 

[Gromulus]

I have contemplated purchasing an Eastman A-2 several times over the years but when I enter my weight and measurements on their customer size guide calculator on the website I get the "unfortunately we aren't able to cater to your size" message. I would pursue Goodwear but the price and lead time are both greater than I would consider.

 

[HPA Rep]

I have contemplated purchasing an Eastman A-2 several times over the years but when I enter my weight and measurements on their customer size guide calculator on the website I get the "unfortunately we aren't able to cater to your size" message. I would pursue Goodwear but the price and lead time are both greater than I would consider.

The Eastman size calculator works most of the time, but there are indeed gray areas that it cannot account for and Gary Eastman and I have discussed this and how personally reviewing a customer's measures is always best. On our website we have sizing tips and listed measurements, which while this system is also not fool proof, I do believe it provides for better determination of size than that calculator. If you are very tall and thin or more round and with a chest measure greater than 48", then an Eastman A-2 may well not fit you in any form, but since you have my attention, please do send me an e-mail with your height, weight, chest circumference, body type, and waist measure and I'll be happy to personally assess the possibility of you being able to wear an Eastman A-2 or other style.

 

[Fanch]

I have contemplated purchasing an Eastman A-2 several times over the years but when I enter my weight and measurements on their customer size guide calculator on the website I get the "unfortunately we aren't able to cater to your size" message. I would pursue Goodwear but the price and lead time are both greater than I would consider.

I noted the same thing as Gromlus regarding the Eastman website telling me"unfortunately we aren't able to cater to your size" when I inserted my sizing measurements, which is the reason that I originally thought the Eastman contracts were not available in long sizes. Of course original contracts were issued to young, skinny airmen during WW II without regard for perfect sizing. This was also my experience in 1967 when I was issued a G-1 by the USN that was a great fit, with the exception of short sleeves.

I did save a couple of old WW II photos that someone else had saved and posted awhile back. This included one if Jimmy Stewart, whom I met ~1974 and noted him to be taller and more "arms and legs" even than I. As you can see, his frame determined the way his A-2 fit him back then.



You can see the variation of fit in these photos.



I realize there is tremendous variation between members of our little group of friends on TFL as to what is acceptable. If not, we would all want the same thing, and how boring would that be?

Right now in my current station of life, I want a relatively high end of almost anything that I acquire, and have found that generally I have to pay top dollar to scratch my itch. Regarding some on TFL (and VLJ), virtual exact duplication is of paramount importance, and I certainly respect that point of view, which possibly might have been my point of view as well, if not for my anatomic variation from the "normal" 5'10" 140-150 lbs. size. Above all, I want a jacket that fits properly. I think that Seb Lucas probably best summarized my point of view as well in post #113. Seb has a way of cutting to the chase with economy of words like no one else here.

 

[Sloan1874]

Actually, I got the same thing when I put my measurements into ELC as well! Yet, when I went to be measured for a suit on Friday, the guy was delighted that I was such an easy, standard fit - a bit of pinning to pull the suit in to my taste, but that was it. [huh]

 

[Fanch]

Sloan, having seen pictures of you wearing various jackets, you could pass for a "poster boy" of a WW II pilot and would have to work at getting a bad or even mediocre fit, unlike many of the rest of us.

 

[Sloan1874]

Oh you silver-tongued charmer, Fanch! It does make me wonder what ELC's standard fit is like.