Dog Fighting? Good God Almighty.

[Feraud]

That said, a society can be judged by how it treats its weakest members. And while they are not equal members, animals, including and maybe especially dogs, are members. They have been since the first wolf started hanging around for caveman scraps. How we treat animals does reflect on us.

Good words worth repeating.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

This is what dog trainer Cesar Milan has to say about dog fighting and abuse:

The first time I witnessed animal abuse was when I moved to Mazatlan as a child. It tore me up inside to see people throwing rocks at dogs and swearing at them. Later, as an adult, I witnessed first hand the effects of abuse on dogs. I have seen animals that have been hit and kicked, neglected puppies tied to trees in backyards for days and dogs denied food and water.

One memorable case is Popeye. Popeye lost an eye in an illegal dog fight. After this, his owners abandoned him. With his new vision impairment, Popeye felt vulnerable, grew suspicious and became very aggressive toward other dogs in an attempt to intimidate them.

Rosemary was also used in illegal dog fights. When she lost a particularly important fight, her owners poured gasoline over her and set her on fire. A rescue organization stepped in and saved her life, but the horrific experience turned her into a dangerously human-aggressive dog.

Luckily, I was able to rehabilitate both Popeye and Rosemary and provide them with the proper leadership they needed to be fulfilled and feel safe. However, not all dogs are this fortunate. Out of fear, abused dogs may attack, and even kill, humans. Society often sentences these dogs to death, even though it was because of humans they became aggressive. (emphasis added)​

Beautiful animals, Paisley. Thank you for this. I'll say it again and I don't care if no one is listening: my neighbor bred and fought dogs. I turned him in. He fed gasoline to the dogs. He stole small pet dogs to feed to the dogs to give them the taste of blood. He threw away dogs who couldn't breed or lost fights. Their lives, even those who were champion fighters, were miserable until freed. I wouldn't wish it on a dog.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Please cite sources

The difference is we consider dogs as pets and chickens are........well.....chickens.lol

...There is nothing thes cocks like better than a good fight to the death.


...Chickens kill for breeding rights in the jungle.
.

I live in the sticks and lots of my neighbors have chickens as pets.

What evidence do you have that they enjoy a fight to the death?

Chickens live in the jungle?

(I eat chicken, but am questioning some of your evidence to support chicken fights.)

 

[K.D. Lightner]

It's one thing what animals do in the wild, it is another as to what we force upon them. I don't even like the idea of beta fish fights being staged, let alone chickens or mammals.

My poor old mother was watching some portions of the dog fighting problem on CNN and started crying. She asked why anyone would do such a thing to innocent animals. I told her, "Sadly, there are people who get great enjoyment out of watching something or someone being torn apart. They get off on it."

When she asked how would they like to be thrown into a ring and be bitten like that, I told her I am sure there are people who have experienced it, and probably more recently than the Gladiator fights in the Roman arena.

Human cruelty has known no bounds.

karol

 

[Rooster]

I live in the sticks and lots of my neighbors have chickens as pets.

No surprise. I had a teen age girl bring over her three pet ducks the other day to live at the Roosters home for wayward ducks a couple days ago. These birds are definately pet material and will be treated as such. Out of a herd of a dozen sheep we have a couple I'd put into the "pet" catagory, which means they won't be eaten, but doesn't mean they'll live in the house.... Pets are pets, Farm animals are farm animals, never the twain shall meet. lol

What evidence do you have that they enjoy a fight to the death?

It's happened several times on my farm when I have "escapees". One bird will be battered and the other dead when I find them. Either one could have run away at anytime, but they choose to fight to the death. The same thing happens in the cockpit, either bird can fly out of the pit and end the fight. It rarely ever happens. All you have to do is put to Game roosters in front of each other, the hackles go up and the fight is on. There is no training involved, this is purely a natural instinct that God gave these birds. Go to youtube and do a search for cockfighting. Watch the fights. It will become obvious pretty quickly that these birds fight because they want to. Gamecocks HATE other Gamecocks.:rage:

Chickens live in the jungle?

Yes, that's where they originated. There are very few Wild jungle fowl left in the world. There are a few flocks left in remote parts of India and Indonesia and a few of the other south Pacific Isles. There is also a flock of Jungle fowl in some zoo in California. I'm not so sure how "pure" they are though.
I'm neither supporting nor condeming cockfighting. I've never been to a cockpit mainly because it's illegal and I can't afford to be caught there. If it ever becomes legal near me (it never will) I'd go to see the birds fight. But , I'd never gamble, I personally find gambling much more revolting than cockfighting.
The point I'm trying to make is I don't believe it's anybody's business what somebody does with their animals. Animals are just animals. Domesticated animals need to be taken care of by humans. The amount of care they recieve is regulated by the care taker. The government should be able to regulate that. It becomes a very slippery slope when animals are give "rights".
I dislike dogfighting. I'd never go to one. But, I don't feel I should tell others what they can and can not do, It should be up to the individual, and definately not up to the Government, and certainly not up to these "animals rights" do gooders.

 

[Rooster]

It's one thing what animals do in the wild, it is another as to what we force upon them.

There is no "forcing" involved in cockfighting. As an example just this week I had two roosters peck a hole between their pens. They finally got the hole big enough that they could get their heads through and get at each other. Well, they carried on untill both of them have bloody swelled up heads and thier eyes swollen shut. Nobody forced them to do this, it's purely a natural gamecock thing to do, kill the other male. Needless to say I'm quite disappointed as I was planning on showing both of these boys at the Iowa stae fair in a couple weeks. (You should come see my birds since you're from Des Moines!)

I have no idea if dogs are forced to fight or not, I've never actually seen a pit dog fight.
"Sadly, there are people who get great enjoyment out of watching something or someone being torn apart. They get off on it

."
Maybe we should outlaw boxing and football too?

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I have known of lovebirds and other kinds of birds that will attempt to kill each other if you put them in a cage with one another.

If two roosters break out of their pens and attempt to do one another in, that is their nature at work. Happens in the wild with all sorts of animals, including deer, elk, bighorns, etc.

But, to have people stage fights so they can "have fun" watching animals maul each other is, well, to me it's darn creepy.

karol

 

[Rooster]

But, to have people stage fights so they can "have fun" watching animals maul each other is, well, to me it's darn creepy.

There's all kinds of human behavior I find darn creepy. Homosexuality, drug use, gambling etc.... But I'm not going to be so arrogant as to tell people engaged in those activities that they can't do those things anymore.
So, what ever happened to celibrating cultural diversity? Cripes, it's all I ever hear about in the press and on TV. Animal fighting is a cultural practice, especialy with the Hispanics , asians, and rural southern caucasians. Are we to be selective about what cultures we celebrate?[huh]
I'm all for just leaving people alone.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

There's all kinds of human behavior I find darn creepy. Homosexuality, drug use, gambling etc.... But I'm not going to be so arrogant as to tell people engaged in those activities that they can't do those things anymore.
So, what ever happened to celibrating cultural diversity? Cripes, it's all I ever hear about in the press and on TV. Animal fighting is a cultural practice, especialy with the Hispanics , asians, and rural southern caucasians. Are we to be selective about what cultures we celebrate?[huh]
I'm all for just leaving people alone.

I suspect you may have just alienated a number of people on here who engage in said "creepy" behavior.

As for "celebrating cultural diversity", personally, I don't buy into it. It's culturally acceptable to burn women in India. I believe in moral absolutes which I won't define, defend or get into here other than to say I do not embrace all actions simply because people from another culture find them to be acceptable.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Game cocks aren't born with sharpened spurs.

Maybe we should outlaw boxing and football too?

CONSENTING ADULTS

 

[Rooster]

Game cocks aren't born with sharpened spurs

.
Oh contrare Miss Hell. I'll go out in the chicken yard today and take a picture of natural spurs. They're quite long and sharp!

 

[Rooster]

I suspect you may have just alienated a number of people on here who engage in said "creepy" behavior.

As for "celebrating cultural diversity", personally, I don't buy into it. It's culturally acceptable to burn women in India. I believe in moral absolutes which I won't define, defend or get into here other than to say I do not embrace all actions simply because people from another culture find them to be acceptable.

I image all that has been said about those who enjoy animal fights have offended those people too, but that seems to be Ok?[huh]
Otherwise I agree with the rest of your statement. I'll not be the one to pass public judgment on others behavior wether I approve of it or not. Unless of course that behavior harms other people.
( I wonder if I'm spelling behavior right....bothers me when I suspect I'm spelling something wrong...:eusa_doh: )

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

.
Oh contrare Miss Hell. I'll go out in the chicken yard today and take a picture of natural spurs. They're quite long and sharp!

My understanding is that the spurs are sharpened, and the comb and wattle are removed. Plus, the animals are bred to be better fighters...all of this is done by people. The natural agression is amplified and the bird is altered.

 

[Paisley]

The "just as nature intended" idea doesn't appeal to me. Even a child, left to its natural state, is a nuisance. While a wild rooster might not be trainable, a dog certainly is. It's important that we as a society train our dogs to be obedient and minimize their instinct to fight.

Why? First, humans domesticated them and we are responsible for their care.

Second, dogs that are used for fighting, or are abused or neglected, leave a mess for the grownups of the world to clean up. It creates abandoned dogs that have to be rehabilitated to be fit to live in a normal home--or more likely, be euthenized. A vicious dog is a hazard for the neighbors--some dogs can jump high fences. I know, I was in the alley one day when a neighbor's pit bull climbed over a six-foot fence that had some pickets missing. (Luckily, it was a well-trained dog and responded to my command to return to its yard.) They're a hazard to people in the country, too, who don't have a dog catcher to call. (My aunt once had to shoot a pit bull that was too mean to approach.)

Third, it's nice to know that if my dog ever got lost, she's less likely to be used as dog bait or the target of someone's cruelty because there are fines and jail sentences for it.

It's a mistake to say that country people appreciate animal fighting or don't care about their animals' welfare. My parents grew up in the country. They're regular folk, not activists. They don't know of anyone who fought dogs or birds and they call the practice "horrible." I agree with them.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I know one reason, many years ago, that I left attending churches is because a sunday school teacher told me that animals did not have souls and therefore were here for us to do what we wanted with them.

Which is fine to a point. I eat meat, can't complain about that. But, I can complain when I find out about hog confinements, calves bred for veal, chickens put in tiny cages, chickens being thrown against walls and tortured by those who are supposed to humanely kill them for food, animals mistreated for entertainment, etc., ad nauseum.

As for sports that are a bit too violent, we change rules all the time to prevent that (except for ice hockey). And, when Ms. Bella Hell used the term "consenting adults." that said it all.

That goes for gay people, too -- consenting adults who love and desire persons of the same sex. Why would people be upset by that, but think it fine to watch animals tear each other to bits?

Am I missing something here? I guess I just don't get it.

karol

 

[The Captain]

Nike

I just read this item and thought it applied to the "original" thread.

Nike's statement reads as follows:

“Nike has suspended Michael Vick’s contract without pay, and will not sell any more Michael Vick product at Nike owned retail at this time. As we’ve said before, Nike is concerned by the serious and highly disturbing allegations made against Michael Vick and we consider any cruelty to animals inhumane and abhorrent. However, we do believe that Michael Vick should be afforded the same due process as any citizen in the United States, therefore, we have not terminated our relationship.”

Also today, Reebok agreed to stop selling Michael Vick-branded products. The company does not have a contract with Vick but has an official relationship with the NFL to sell its merchandise. :eusa_clap

 

[Flora]

I heard of this

And honestly this is why pitbulls were banned up here - bad owners doing bad things to potentially dangerous animals. They become manipulated into violence!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Rare, especially if you buy the cheap stuff.

Yes, that's why one doesn't buy the cheap stuff.

Cheap meat = badly treated animal = antibiotics, growth hormones, feed-lot cow/sheep/pig/etc. never seen a blade of grass in its life.

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'll go out in the chicken yard today and take a picture of natural spurs. They're quite long and sharp!

Spur pictures pending?

.

 

[MudInYerEye]

You people need to lighten up and go three rounds with a kangaroo or wrestle a chimp or something. Tarzan lives.
Ungawa.