does it ever bother you that vintage clothing is a deceased person's clothing?

[V.C. Brunswick]

The house in Fall River, MA where Lizzie Borden supposedly murdered her father and stepmother in 1892 is now a bed & breakfast.

http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

 

[ButteMT61]

The house in Fall River, MA where Lizzie Borden supposedly murdered her father and stepmother in 1892 is now a bed & breakfast.http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

Funny that. My son's ex-girfriend was a relative, and didn't use the last name because of that. Me, I find these stories fascinating! I thought it was much cooler than she did, obviously

 

[Flicka]

I'm a little uncomfortable about finding gruesome crimes 'cool'. It wasn't too cool for the victims, after all. I remember Trent Reznor living in Sharon Tate's old mansion in the '90s and not getting it was goulishly bad taste to talk about how that was really cool until her sister walked up to him in the street and told him off. He said he was all, 'wow, how would I fell if that was my sister?' Like, yeah, she had to tell you before you got that?

 

[ButteMT61]

I'm a little uncomfortable about finding gruesome crimes 'cool'. It wasn't too cool for the victims, after all. I remember Trent Reznor living in Sharon Tate's old mansion in the '90s and not getting it was goulishly bad taste to talk about how that was really cool until her sister walked up to him in the street and told him off. He said he was all, 'wow, how would I fell if that was my sister?' Like, yeah, she had to tell you before you got that?

Well, I see what you're saying, but she is far removed from it in time and relation. I don't think the crimes were cool - but the stories and the Lizzy Borden jingle/song or whatever it's called are from my childhood and I've always loved creepy stories and places, etc. I think you're taking my post way too literally. I'd say the public in general also has a fascination with such things. Think of famous assassinations and other such events. They are on never ending rotation on the History Channel, in movies, books, etc. Hope that's clear now.

 

[Flicka]

Well, I see what you're saying, but she is far removed from it in time and relation. I don't think the crimes were cool - but the stories and the Lizzy Borden jingle/song or whatever it's called are from my childhood and I've always loved creepy stories and places, etc. I think you're taking my post way too literally. I'd say the public in general also has a fascination with such things. Think of famous assassinations and other such events. They are on never ending rotation on the History Channel, in movies, books, etc. Hope that's clear now.

Absolutely. It wasn't directed at you. Lizzie Borden is definitely history and I happily brag that our only regicide was planned metres from where I live. I was more referring to stuff like my earlier story. Some people do revel in such things, and it's sometimes a little tactless when it's recent.

 

[sheeplady]

In my personal experience with such things, the children I have known who have brutally murdered their parents (while not doing so rightfully, by a long shot) typically had really incredibly abusive upbringings. I don't feel anywhere as sorry for those victims as I do for those who are innocent of those types of crimes.

One of my classmates from middle through high school killed his parents; he had been removed and placed with his grandparents when I knew him. His parents ran into financial trouble and begged him to move back in as an adult and help the family out, which he did. Based upon the tip of the iceberg that I know of what went on in that house when he was a child, his parents deserved to be jailed for life for the abuse.

Another individual I remotely knew got accepted into a prestigious college. His step mother illegally closed his bank account (taking out over $10,000 that this young man had saved by working part time jobs and doing everything he could). When he got home, she had bought a new sportscar with his money as downpayment, put all of his things out of the house, and told him he wouldn't be able to finish high school. I came out later she had sexually abused him throughout his entire life while the father watched and countless family members knew about it and did nothing. This was how she was going to prevent him from getting out of her and her husband's grasp.

The worst kind of abusers are the ones who never give any indication to the outside world of what goes on, and all the friends and neighbors line up and say "what nice people they were" and "how could their *** of a child do this?" of parents who ritually beat, sexually violated, raped, verbally abused, stole, and denied basic necessities to their children. Neither of those individuals had any more screws loose than me, and I can't say I would have done anything different than them if I had been in the same pure-hell situations. I'll say it's still murder and it's still wrong, but I'm not going to shed any tears for victims who focused on making their own children's lives hell.

 

[ButteMT61]

Absolutely. It wasn't directed at you. Lizzie Borden is definitely history and I happily brag that our only regicide was planned metres from where I live. I was more referring to stuff like my earlier story. Some people do revel in such things, and it's sometimes a little tactless when it's recent.

Agreed. Certainly, time has to pass for things like that to be palatable. I do though love UFOs, horror movies and anything scary. When we travel, I go to every cemetery I can. That's probably creepy to some, but it is what it is

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

"Well it was kinda cool but not like cool cool. I mean it was not cool but it was kinda bad cool and er... um...."

[video=youtube;29BoqCMRBFk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29BoqCMRBFk[/video]

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Agreed. Certainly, time has to pass for things like that to be palatable. I do though love UFOs, horror movies and anything scary. When we travel, I go to every cemetery I can. That's probably creepy to some, but it is what it is

Same. I love anything related to death, hence I refer to myself as a "death hag." Do I revel in it and find it happy? No. But I do find stories of strange deaths and tragic events to be very fascinating and I think most people do, too. We're ALL going to die one day and we all have that morbid curiosity instilled in us -- some more than others.

Part of my love of the 20s and 30s is because most people who lived then are already dead.

 

[Shangas]

In my personal experience with such things, the children I have known who have brutally murdered their parents (while not doing so rightfully, by a long shot) typically had really incredibly abusive upbringings. I don't feel anywhere as sorry for those victims as I do for those who are innocent of those types of crimes.

One of my classmates from middle through high school killed his parents; he had been removed and placed with his grandparents when I knew him. His parents ran into financial trouble and begged him to move back in as an adult and help the family out, which he did. Based upon the tip of the iceberg that I know of what went on in that house when he was a child, his parents deserved to be jailed for life for the abuse.

Another individual I remotely knew got accepted into a prestigious college. His step mother illegally closed his bank account (taking out over $10,000 that this young man had saved by working part time jobs and doing everything he could). When he got home, she had bought a new sportscar with his money as downpayment, put all of his things out of the house, and told him he wouldn't be able to finish high school. I came out later she had sexually abused him throughout his entire life while the father watched and countless family members knew about it and did nothing. This was how she was going to prevent him from getting out of her and her husband's grasp.

The worst kind of abusers are the ones who never give any indication to the outside world of what goes on, and all the friends and neighbors line up and say "what nice people they were" and "how could their *** of a child do this?" of parents who ritually beat, sexually violated, raped, verbally abused, stole, and denied basic necessities to their children. Neither of those individuals had any more screws loose than me, and I can't say I would have done anything different than them if I had been in the same pure-hell situations. I'll say it's still murder and it's still wrong, but I'm not going to shed any tears for victims who focused on making their own children's lives hell.

"...No place hides a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling countryside....You look at these lonely homesteads, and are impressed by their beauty. I look at them and think of what deeds of hellish cruelty may go on in such places, year in, year out, and no-one the wiser..."

- Sherlock Holmes

 

[ButteMT61]

Same. I love anything related to death, hence I refer to myself as a "death hag." Do I revel in it and find it happy? No. But I do find stories of strange deaths and tragic events to be very fascinating and I think most people do, too. We're ALL going to die one day and we all have that morbid curiosity instilled in us -- some more than others.Part of my love of the 20s and 30s is because most people who lived then are already dead.

You got it. I have a reputation of scaring my kids and grandkids with glee. My wife gets mad at me, but I can't help it. It's a fascinating subject - most likely because we really have no clue if this is indeed the end, or the beginning. Plus, my Mom let me watch Dark Shadows as a kid and that got me started down that road...

 

[sheeplady]

"...No place hides a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling countryside....You look at these lonely homesteads, and are impressed by their beauty. I look at them and think of what deeds of hellish cruelty may go on in such places, year in, year out, and no-one the wiser..."

- Sherlock Holmes

Yeah, not surprisingly these occurred out in the country and in the suburbs- places where some people have taken the art of "minding your business" to a whole different level.

My point being, I really wouldn't care if people were fascinated by either of these crimes. I don't really feel all that sorry for the victims, and if people wanted to hang up their pictures in their homes, I wouldn't care. I've heard it speculated by more than one expert that Lizzie Borden may also have been abused. Given my own logic, most people don't excessively murder someone they are that close to unless they've got a lot of anger issues towards the person for a good reason (as was the case in the two cases I mention- they were incredibly gruesome- extremely excessive). I couldn't care less if people are fascinated by her parents' murder if they did abuse her.

I'm not going to cry any over an abuser who was victimized by the person they abused being gossiped about. Quite frankly, if the abuser had kept his/her/their hands to themselves they probably would still be alive.

 

[Flicka]

Yeah, not surprisingly these occurred out in the country and in the suburbs- places where some people have taken the art of "minding your business" to a whole different level.

My point being, I really wouldn't care if people were fascinated by either of these crimes. I don't really feel all that sorry for the victims, and if people wanted to hang up their pictures in their homes, I wouldn't care. I've heard it speculated by more than one expert that Lizzie Borden may also have been abused. Given my own logic, most people don't excessively murder someone they are that close to unless they've got a lot of anger issues towards the person for a good reason (as was the case in the two cases I mention- they were incredibly gruesome- extremely excessive). I couldn't care less if people are fascinated by her parents' murder if they did abuse her.

I'm not going to cry any over an abuser who was victimized by the person they abused being gossiped about. Quite frankly, if the abuser had kept his/her/their hands to themselves they probably would still be alive.

Are you thinking especially of people killing their parents? Some people are definitely brutally murdered without having abused anyone. I mean, we're not assuming everyone who gets killed have abused their killer?

ETA: just wanted to add - my BFF is a serial killer fanatic, so I'm pretty used to people being fascinated by murders. It's just that you can be fascinated and you can be just ghoulish. I can't put my finger on the exact difference, but it's there. It's like the difference between a documentary and reality tv. So I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't referring to anyone here with my comment (however, Trent, I am looking at you).

 

[sheeplady]

Are you thinking especially of people killing their parents? Some people are definitely brutally murdered without having abused anyone. I mean, we're not assuming everyone who gets killed have abused their killer?

Yes, I am speaking specifically of people who kill their parents who abused them. (True abuse, not "you can't have that candy bar" or whatever people might misconstrue my meaning to be.) I'd also throw abused significant others and those who kill their rapists in the lot too.

Of course people are brutally murdered all the time without having done anything remotely wrong, yet alone abusing someone. In those two examples I gave that I had personal contact with, there was substantial documented long running abuse by the people who were the murder victims. I think that if you are killed by somebody you abused like that, you lose some rights to privacy in the media that are typically afforded victims. I also really don't think (and this is my personal opinion) that an innocent victim should get the same amount of sympathy from the public as someone who repeatedly (or even once) violated their murderer's basic rights.

It's still murder, but the circumstances require that the victim lose some privacy in order to give the accused murderer a fair trial. And because I freely admit I don't feel as much sympathy for the abuser, I don't care if people gawk at their crime scene photos. Really, I don't.

But I have to admit, abusing children is one of my hot-button issues that I have zero tolerance for.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

You got it. I have a reputation of scaring my kids and grandkids with glee. My wife gets mad at me, but I can't help it. It's a fascinating subject - most likely because we really have no clue if this is indeed the end, or the beginning. Plus, my Mom let me watch Dark Shadows as a kid and that got me started down that road...

Yes..but you gotta admit..sometimes it just goes too far with kids.
This is sad....

[video=youtube;7ZgV0hT2M_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZgV0hT2M_A[/video]

 

[AtomicEraTom]

That's what happened with us, too. The house was beautiful. Around 4,000 square foot farmhouse, built in 1903 and almost entirely original. The house would have been exceptional even in the era when it was built. It was on a few acres with dual ponds, connected by a waterfall, a barn, other outbuildings, and a cheese factory off the basement (which also had 12 foot ceilings. Really a tough place to have to give up. I wish I had some photos handy.

That is horrible.

There is a beautiful old house near where I went to college. A guy went totally crazy and had a mental break, and killed 6 or 7 of his family members (including his wife and children as well as I believe his sister/brother and in-laws) and then himself at least 10 or 15 years ago. Nobody wants to live in that house now, which is kind of a shame. It also put the small town on the record books for a while for having one of the highest murder rates in the state, proving that statistics can be a little misleading.

 

[sheeplady]

That's what happened with us, too. The house was beautiful. Around 4,000 square foot farmhouse, built in 1903 and almost entirely original. The house would have been exceptional even in the era when it was built. It was on a few acres with dual ponds, connected by a waterfall, a barn, other outbuildings, and a cheese factory off the basement (which also had 12 foot ceilings. Really a tough place to have to give up. I wish I had some photos handy.

That's so sad. It sounds beautiful. What eventually happened to the house?

I remember thinking the first time the house was pointed out to me and I was told it couldn't be sold: "couldn't he have chosen a more ugly place? like a McMansion or something?" But then I immediately felt bad regarding the circumstances to have such a meaningless thought. A couple years after that, I met one of the EMTs who reported to the scene; it wasn't unusual to have college kids working as EMTs on the side, and he worked with 3 older individuals who were professionals. He and the paramedic walked in, and the paramedic sent him out of the house to go sit in the ambulance. EMTs and paramedics see everything- accidents all the time with children and all sorts of horrible things but this was so much worse. There were young children involved and it was really bad inside that house. A tragedy for everybody. I think they're going to eventually tear the house down. I think the village owns it, given the fact that there was no one left to inherit it, or if there was, nobody wanted it.

 

[ButteMT61]

I'd live in a "death house" before a McMansion any day. I'm not even sure it would bother me, but I guess it's dependent on the story. After watching the last season of American Horror Story, maybe not lol

 

[sheeplady]

I'd live in a "death house" before a McMansion any day. I'm not even sure it would bother me, but I guess it's dependent on the story. After watching the last season of American Horror Story, maybe not lol

The house in question apparently would need a heck of a lot of work- it was really bad. All cosmetic, but I'm not sure I'd be up to that. But yeah, I'd take my chances in a death house before a McMansion. I think the death house would be considerably less likely to kill me for crimes against architecture.

Unless, of course, it was an old house that looked like this: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/307-W-Duffy-St-Savannah-GA-31401/14158232_zpid/ I don't care if anybody died in it, I'd be too worried former ghost inhabitants would think I had done that to their house. And kill me in broad daylight in the yard or something. They'd be that angry.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

My cousin's best friend's aunt and uncle own the house now.

That's so sad. It sounds beautiful. What eventually happened to the house?

Also, ironically, we had a detective from the county the house is in visit the gun shop a couple weeks ago. My dad asked him if he had been involved in that case (we sold the house in 1993.) And he had been. He said they never did catch the murderer. They suspect it was one of the neighbors. The victim had a reputation for being a real jerk. If people walked past the house, he would shoot at them from the house and such.