Dobbs Unusual style from 1918

[Woodfluter]

Given the colors and construction, I'd sure guess it's a woman's hat.

Tall woman to left rear in 1918 wartime kitchen photo seems to be wearing something with a similar outline.

Look at the photo Feltfan posted of Lara Croft's granny and the other yeo(wo)men. In those cases, a uniform hat but notice the diameter of the crown - definitely made large enough in circumference to accommodate voluminous hair piled atop the head. I think you'll see hints of that in the 1918 kitchen picture also. Without all that hair, they'd fall over your eyes.

Since the hat really would be contacting only hair, no purpose in adding a sweatband.

Probably wouldn't be needed because of the size and weight, but are there any little holes anywhere near the base of the crown that might be associated with a straight hair pin (or more precisely hat pin), to keep it in place?

(Fun to play hat detectives...)
- Bill

 

[Tango Yankee]

You know, I grew up in a suburb of Los Angeles so this sort of thing normally wouldn't occur to me, but I wonder if it wasn't part of a doorman's uniform.

I've been looking at images of doormen and find that they come in a wide variety of styles. One blurry photo I found was of a doorman wearing a hat with a similar brim but a very tall stove pipe crown. Unfortunately, most of the images I have found are fairly recent. Top hats of various styles are popular.

I suppose that to find vintage photos of doormen would take a bit more time and a variety of approaches then I'm willing to put into it.

I think it's a good possibility, though. Doorman's uniforms do tend to be a bit flamboyant from what I've seen. Something else to think about!

Regards,
Tom

 

[DOUGLAS]

This is an increadable hat Tango. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[donCarlos]

It would go well with the "jazz suit" lol

 

[BellyTank]

Exactly!


B
T

 

[Visigoth]

I suspect it was made for the 1918 equivalent of Keith Richards.

(Who that might have been, I'm not sure.)

 

[mayserwegener]

I suspect it was made for the 1918 equivalent of Keith Richards.

(Who that might have been, I'm not sure.)

I was thinking more Prince.

I way on the side of this being a ladies hat.

 

[Tango Yankee]

The Noggin Shot

Thanks for the comments and observations, gentlemen!

Here, as requested, is a noggin shot.

I'm still leaning towards something like doorman, but who knows? I won't lose much sleep over it!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[rlk]

A stage act, marching band or circus performer might wear such a hat.

 

[Sargon]

Having looked at quite a bit of vintage ribbon I would bet money that purple was not the original color of the ribbon. Over time and exposure to the air many ribbons would oxidize to another color. This may very well have started out black.

 

[Bassman]

Maybe some kind of coachman's or footman's attire.
(What's a footman?)[huh]

 

[Tango Yankee]

Having looked at quite a bit of vintage ribbon I would bet money that purple was not the original color of the ribbon. Over time and exposure to the air many ribbons would oxidize to another color. This may very well have started out black.

I wondered about fading myself, and looked at the back side of the ribbon in the folds of the bow. It started out purple.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Brad Bowers]

Looks...interesting on you, Tom.

It's gotta be a women's hat. It doesn't make sense as anything else, all the details now seem to fit that hypothesis.

So let your wife enjoy it.

Brad

 

[Tango Yankee]

So let your wife enjoy it.

I fully intend to! She's looking forward to shopping for a dress to match, I believe. Thanks for the post about Reiner and Core still being open. I'll have to send them a note and a photo or two!

Probably wouldn't be needed because of the size and weight, but are there any little holes anywhere near the base of the crown that might be associated with a straight hair pin (or more precisely hat pin), to keep it in place?

(Fun to play hat detectives...)
- Bill

No, but the fiberboard would be a bit too stiff for casual hat pin use. One would need a bit of force to drive a pin through it.

Quite the score, TY. Do you mind disclosing what you paid for it?

Not at all, Tony! It was $104.51 plus shipping when all was said and done. I think we've gotten our money's worth out of it already!

One of these days I'll add a vintage top hat (not an opera hat!) to my collection to compare the construction with this one.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Brad Bowers]

One of these days I'll add a vintage top hat (not an opera hat!) to my collection to compare the construction with this one.

I've got a full description on how Crofut & Knapp made their top hats and I can post the information in a few days, if I can remember it. This is finals week, so I'll be grading papers and exams through the weekend!

Brad

 

[jimmy the lid]

Given the colors and construction, I'd sure guess it's a woman's hat.

I'm almost certain that I have seen such hats on women in period movies. Couldn't put my finger on any particular film right now, but I'll bet that such a review would lead to a match...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[carldelo]

Riding hat?

When I saw this post, the first thing I thought was that it looks like a woman's riding hat, especially after seeing the liner:

The cord at the top of the liner on riding hats can be tightened to cinch up the lining, creating a suspension system like the inside of a hardhat. The liner of TYs hat looks very much like the liner of the Christy's Devon bowler, which is the riding version of their classic bowler. The Devon is shown at Hornets Hats (you have to click the little image of the liner to zoom it up - it won't let me copy the image source):

http://www.hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Bowler Hats

They call the quilted lining a 'hunting pad'. I guess it's so you don't crack your noggin while drunkenly falling off your mount in pursuit of an innocent fox. Also, they say there's a leather sweatband - maybe it's under the quilting (or maybe it's a typo).

BTW, I think there is one man who could pull off wearing TYs lid:

 

[Tango Yankee]

The hat in use!

Rhonda did find an outfit to go with this hat, and wore the ensemble to church on Mother's Day. We took photos afterward:

And with our youngest grandchild, Preston:

And the two of us with two of our grandchildren. Preston is fascinated by hats! I'm wearing a Dobbs 2-tone straw. The brim is green, goes well with the coat.

After wearing it Rhonda's of the opinion that it's a man's hat, but it's still her hat now.

 

[Jerry Probst]

Hi everyone!

I would like to re-open this discussion from the Wayback Machine of this very odd and interesting Dobbs hat opened up by

For fans of the unusual, here's a Dobbs that I won recently. It's not something that I could see myself wearing (what would I wear it with would be a big question) but my wife has decided that it'll be her hat and will be looking for the right outfit to wear under it. I have no idea what this style would be called.

The color is kind of an aqua, with a royal purple ribbon and edge binding. You'll notice a kind of reverse taper, or bell shape. The top is slightly curved, with an indent (flaw) in the middle where it's been pressed down somehow.

The brim, like the rest of the hat, is stiff. It curves up a little bit all the way around.

I'm not familiar with the construction of top hats as I've not yet purchased one but Brad saw some similarities in the auction photos. This hat is formed by a type of fiberboard covered by fur felt on the top and a grosgrain-like fabric on the underside of the brim.

The inside of the hat with the liner pulled up:

The liner on the sides is slightly quilted, with a satin-like material on the outside and a light canvas-like material on the inside. There is no sweatband, nor was one ever a part of this hat.

Here is the liner. You can also tell from this photo that the material on the underside of the brim was cut from one piece.

This shows the inside of the liner, plus the "To Duplicate" tag:

I wonder if the presence of a "To Duplicate" tag indicates a hat that was a particular style rather than a custom?

A close-up of the grosgrain on the underside of the brim:

At first I thought it had an interesting ribbon treatment in that the bow ribbon towards the front appeared to have been pleated, but the reality is that it was pushed backwards and inadvertently creased that way at some point.

Hi everyone!

I would like to re-open this discussion from the Wayback Machine of this very odd and interesting Dobbs hat opened up by Yankee Tango nine years ago.

I have read this thread with great interest because I found the same hat (with some notable differences that I will discuss below) at an estate sale today.

The discussion was engaged for a couple weeks with some very insightful observations and hat making knowledge brought to bear to answer the question ... what the heck is it? While several candidates were put forward, the discussion petered out before the purpose of this hat was definitively identified.

I'd like to re engage the discussion and hopefully answer the question. I will post my photos and observations in a separate comment to break up the long post.

Here's my version of Yankee Tango's interesting find.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jerry

 

[Jerry Probst]

Ok here are the photos of my hat and some observations about similarities and differences with Yankee Tango's hat from the previous post.

First off for differences ... my hat is a Knox ... Yankee Tango's is a Dobbs.
Second my hat is all black and not his stunning Blue and Purple version.
Third, are the different ribbons. His is Purple pleated on the side. Mine has three rows of black ribbon with a very unusual pyramid of tabs located at the back of the hat. Lastly, his hat has a grosgrain under brim while mine has a stiff fabric covered board of unknown fabric.

Next for the similarities ... Both hats have the same flat brim and bell shaped crown. Both hats have the same proportions. Both hats have the unusual pleated satin inner lining that is drawn together at the top.

I am not an expert in top hat construction, but my brief internet search convinces me it was made with traditional top hat techniques. The earlier discussion identified the cover as fur felt ... I believe it is silk plush. My black version has a very distinct sheen that I believe was the principal reason that silk replaced beaver in the 1800s.

I'll post another comment with a brief recap of the previous discussion and some of the questions I feel still need to be resolved.

Thanks again for your help. Jerry