Do you count 1945 through 1963 as part of the Golden Era?

[GHT]

Churchill, in fact, rather illustrates Mr Scoggins' point re. the Golden Era since it was in 1937 (to the Peel Commission) that Winnie said something along the lines of, " I do not admit that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, a more wordly-wise race has come in and taken their place."

Churchill, like most aristocrats, saw people like my father, and his brother... http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...ected-by-Family-Members&p=1756420#post1756420 as cannon fodder. Believe you me, I have as stronger views about that as you, but I can still give thanks to his leadership for not capitulating, when all around him, from both sides of the political spectrum, favoured appeasement.

 

[MikeKardec]

I don't know about the Golden Era but, for me, something PROFOUND ended with the Apollo 17 mission and the "Blue Marble" photograph. Not only was it our last real trip into real outer space but that picture is SO depressing. No more meaningful space program, we hit the limit of what was realistically possible and this horrible picture that shows us the limits of our world. In the future, we have turned inward, on a dreadfully limited planet. Google Earth is coming. No more Terra Incognita. No more blank space on the map. The end of anonymity, privacy, the limits of freedom.

One of the things I love about the world of our "Golden Era" was that it was the last moment of a certain sort of possibility. My dad traveled the world as a merchant seaman in the 1920s. He could get off a ship in many countries and just keep walking ... Customs and Immigration was on the honor system in more than half the world. He wasn't taking his life in his hands on a wind jammer, he was just an average kid.

WWII ended that, bureaucracy and control penetrated everywhere. The world closed in, Atomic war threatened. Adventure and exploration slowly disappeared. I hate looking back but we have closed so many of the doors that lead forward, the closing of those doors takes the Golden out of the Golden Age. A quote from Robert Heinlein --

"What did I want? I wanted the hurtling moons of Barsoom. I wanted Storisende and Poictesme, and Holmes shaking me awake to tell me, "The games' afoot!" I wanted to float down the Mississippi on a raft and elude a mob in company with the Duke of Bilgewater and the Lost Dauphin. I wanted Prester John and Excalibur held by a moon-white arm out of a silent lake. I wanted to sail with Ulysses and with Tros of Samothrace and eat the lotus in a land that seemed always afternoon. I wanted the feeling of romance and the sense of wonder I had known as a kid. I wanted the world to be what they had promised me it was going to be -- instead of the tawdry, lousy, fouled-up mess it is."

Yes there were wars and depressions and oppressive colonialism, but I bought a wonderful T-Shirt for my niece, it says something like "My Parents got Apollo ... but all I got was F%#$ing Facebook!" The picture on it is a smart phone orbiting "The Blue Marble."

 

[Tomasso]

The end of anonymity, privacy, the limits of freedom.

Are you saying that..........

 

[Fading Fast]

I grew up in a town that was home to the easternmost military fuel depot in the United States -- which provided fuel to Loring AFB, the largest base for the Strategic Air Command. We were flat-out told in school that if war came, we'd be among the first targets.

I doubt they would do that today as it seems that our approach to children today is to make them incredibly safe (helmets for everything, supervised everything) and make them feel safe about everything (accept of course to warn them about every risk - stranger danger, etc.). But since a child couldn't do anything about a living near a military target, I doubt we would tell them that today with the frankness that you were told.

My parent didn't spend time trying to make us feel safe about everything nor afraid of everything and I am grateful as I grew up with a rational view of the world. And despite being accused of being "jealous" that kids have it easier today, I don't think they have it easier at all in that any putative benefit they have of being coddled as children, I believe will make their teen and adult years harder. I genuinely feel bad that kids are so, IMHO, overprotected - it is not their fault that their parents choose to raise them that way. I am grateful that I was raised with a - by today's standards - harsh reality view of the world as I felt it has helped me deal with the world's harsh realities that I encountered in my teen years on.

 

[LizzieMaine]

No more blank space on the map. The end of anonymity, privacy, the limits of freedom.

The modern culture of surveillance isn't totally a modern invention. Prior to the labor revolution of 1936-38, employees of such corporations as Ford and General Motors had every aspect of their private lives subject to scrutiny by company "security departments" to ensure that attitudes considered dangerous to the interests of the company did not enter the workplace. Thru an elaborate network of internal espionage, the personal habits, political views, religious beliefs, and personal relationships of every employee of such companies were carefully noted. Employees who were sympathetic to viewpoints considered contrary to the company interests could be terminated without notice -- or, in the specific case of Ford, visited by agents of Harry Bennett's "Service Department" who would beat them into renouncing their views.

 

[Tomasso]

Let's not forget the millions who lived in the thousands of 'company towns' across America.

 

[The Reno Kid]

Getting back on topic, I might stretch the definition of "The Golden Age" to as late as 1954, depending on my mood. Most days though, '45 would be the upper limit. The post-war years ushered in the era of ultra-consumerism that in many ways has given us the mess we have today. We gained nearly universal wealth (in relative terms) but we traded our souls for it. Look at a photo of Main Street in virtually any town in America before the war. In nearly every case, you see a clearly identifiable place. You may not know where it is, but it had its own character. It looks inviting. Now look at a photo of Anytown in 2014. If Main Street is not boarded up, it's either been taken over by "antique malls," adult businesses, or McDonadlsStarbucksWendysBurgerKingKFCetc. Every town looks like every other town--or worse. I'll take a burger fried up by Mabel at the Drugstore soda fountain any day.

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

The 1920s flappers were a lot like the much despised 60s hippies. Does anyone agree?

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

Getting back on topic, I might stretch the definition of "The Golden Age" to as late as 1954, depending on my mood. Most days though, '45 would be the upper limit. The post-war years ushered in the era of ultra-consumerism that in many ways has given us the mess we have today. We gained nearly universal wealth (in relative terms) but we traded our souls for it. Look at a photo of Main Street in virtually any town in America before the war. In nearly every case, you see a clearly identifiable place. You may not know where it is, but it had its own character. It looks inviting. Now look at a photo of Anytown in 2014. If Main Street is not boarded up, it's either been taken over by "antique malls," adult businesses, or McDonadlsStarbucksWendysBurgerKingKFCetc. Every town looks like every other town--or worse. I'll take a burger fried up by Mabel at the Drugstore soda fountain any day.

I totally agree with this, but who is "we" when you say we traded our souls? I know the average working class man/woman didn't want jobs exported overseas which led to small towns being turned into ghost towns. That was a move by the country's elite in their quest for cheaper labor... which began with slavery, continued on through to the use of child labor to the use of Ellis Island immigrants, to the Chinese laborers of today that LizzieMaine spoke about in another thread.

 

[The Reno Kid]

I totally agree with this, but who is "we" when you say we traded our souls? I know the average working class man/woman didn't want jobs exported overseas which led to small towns being turned into ghost towns. That was a move by the country's elite in their quest for cheaper labor... which began with slavery, continued on through to the use of child labor to the use of Ellis Island immigrants, to the Chinese laborers of today that LizzieMaine spoke about in another thread.

I understand your point but this could very easily turn into a political discussion of the sort that is rightly verboten on this board, so I'll just leave it there.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The 1920s flappers were a lot like the much despised 60s hippies. Does anyone agree?

I think in terms of the general hedonism they were similar, but flappers (and their male counterparts, the cake-eaters) were pretty much apolitical -- they were out for a good time, and weren't too worried about much beyond that. I think in general the sixties had more in common with the mid-thirties in terms of general social unrest and people taking to the streets in protest of such. Some of the street demonstrations, protests, and riots c. 1936-38 surpassed in scope just about anything to come out of the sixties.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Getting back on topic, I might stretch the definition of "The Golden Age" to as late as 1954, depending on my mood. Most days though, '45 would be the upper limit. The post-war years ushered in the era of ultra-consumerism that in many ways has given us the mess we have today. We gained nearly universal wealth (in relative terms) but we traded our souls for it. Look at a photo of Main Street in virtually any town in America before the war. In nearly every case, you see a clearly identifiable place. You may not know where it is, but it had its own character. It looks inviting. Now look at a photo of Anytown in 2014. If Main Street is not boarded up, it's either been taken over by "antique malls," adult businesses, or McDonadlsStarbucksWendysBurgerKingKFCetc. Every town looks like every other town--or worse. I'll take a burger fried up by Mabel at the Drugstore soda fountain any day.

Don't forget art galleries. Up here, every other storefront is an art gallery. The reason high-ceilinged "great rooms" are so popular with the arrivistes of the modern upper middle class is that they lots of wall space to hang all the Art they pick up when they visit quaint little tourist towns in the summer.

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

I understand your point but this could very easily turn into a political discussion of the sort that is rightly verboten on this board, so I'll just leave it there.

Point taken.

I think in terms of the general hedonism they were similar, but flappers (and their male counterparts, the cake-eaters) were pretty much apolitical -- they were out for a good time, and weren't too worried about much beyond that. I think in general the sixties had more in common with the mid-thirties in terms of general social unrest and people taking to the streets in protest of such. Some of the street demonstrations, protests, and riots c. 1936-38 surpassed in scope just about anything to come out of the sixties.

You are correct, that is an important distinction. The political aspirations of the 60s crowd cannot be compared to the generation 40 years before since theirs was virtually non-existent

 

[2jakes]

I doubt they would do that today as it seems that our approach to children today is to make them incredibly safe (helmets for everything, supervised everything) and make them feel safe about everything (accept of course to warn them about every risk - stranger danger, etc.). But since a child couldn't do anything about a living near a military target, I doubt we would tell them that today with the frankness that you were told.

My parent didn't spend time trying to make us feel safe about everything nor afraid of everything and I am grateful as I grew up with a rational view of the world. And despite being accused of being "jealous" that kids have it easier today, I don't think they have it easier at all in that any putative benefit they have of being coddled as children, I believe will make their teen and adult years harder. I genuinely feel bad that kids are so, IMHO, overprotected - it is not their fault that their parents choose to raise them that way. I am grateful that I was raised with a - by today's standards - harsh reality view of the world as I felt it has helped me deal with the world's harsh realities that I encountered in my teen years on.

You expressed my sentiments as well since I too was raised in similar conditions .
I know of a young lad of 16 who died of drug abuse. The parents gave him everything
& was overprotected.
I don't understand why some parents don't see the harm they are doing
until it's too late.

 

[GHT]

Let's not forget the millions who lived in the thousands of 'company towns' across America.

How do you define company towns? When Ford set up their UK operation in Dagenham, a few miles out of East London, there sprang up one of the most, huge, bland, housing estates imaginable, where every building looked like the next. Even pubs, cinemas, schools weren't exempt.
I don't know if Ford specified it, or even financed it, but the place was so unitarian that Londoners used to joke that The Great Wall of China was not the only construction that could be seen from outer space. The Dagenham Estate could be seen too.

On the other hand, employers like Lever Brothers, who made soaps and cleaning materials, set up an estate known as Sunlight. That name also being one of the company's brands. The estate was much loved and demand was, and still is, very high for one of the homes.

Cadbury Brothers did much the same with their town of Bourneville, now a district of Birmingham, (I think,) and again, the homes were so aesthetically designed, the layout and greenery so easy on the eye, that those homes are also in great demand.
Bourneville doesn't have a single pub, not even to this day. The Cadbury brothers were quakers, and temperence was the order of the day.

There are other such towns scattered around the UK, the towns that make up The Potteries, spring to mind. This is where Josiah Wedgwood set up his business.

I'll be interested to know what The American version of a company town means.

 

[dh66]

Here's an old photo of a company town for the Ishkooda Mining Co. in Wenonah, a community in the western part of Birmingham (Alabama, not England). As you can see, it's pretty much a s#%&hole and whats left of it still is today. There was NOTHING nice about these communities. Birmingham was founded as a iron and steel town and stayed one through the late 60s-early 70s. Workers were paid in scrip, company money, which was worthless anywhere except the company stores and rent for these crap@ss houses. (Tennessee Ernie Ford immortalized this practice in his song "sixteen tons". There were a lot of iron ore mines in the area and they fed the industry since civil war times. (Birmingham is a post-reconstruction city). My granddad worked for the Spaulding-Ishkooda ore processing facility from the time he came home from WWII until he was unceremoniously laid off in the 70s when local steel production went overseas.

Note the armed guard in the foreground of the photo - presumably to keep the workers and their families "safe" (and in line)

So much for the golden era where I live.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2

 

[rjb1]

I may have mentioned this before, but that picture of the armed "guard" with the company houses may make a repeat worthwhile.
He only has a shotgun, but among the first civilian purchasers of *Thompson submachine guns* in the 1920's were steel mills, coal mines, and other entities such as the one that owned the houses in the photo. (Quite a few were sold in Birmingham.)

 

[vitanola]

I understand your point but this could very easily turn into a political discussion of the sort that is rightly verboten on this board, so I'll just leave it there.

Already happened:

Are you saying that..........

View attachment 9724

Of course as was mentioned in another posting, some folks don't consider stuff like this to be political. only things with which they do not agree are prohibited "political discussions".

 

[vitanola]

How do you define company towns? When Ford set up their UK operation in Dagenham, a few miles out of East London, there sprang up one of the most, huge, bland, housing estates imaginable, where every building looked like the next. Even pubs, cinemas, schools weren't exempt.
I don't know if Ford specified it, or even financed it, but the place was so unitarian that Londoners used to joke that The Great Wall of China was not the only construction that could be seen from outer space. The Dagenham Estate could be seen too.

On the other hand, employers like Lever Brothers, who made soaps and cleaning materials, set up an estate known as Sunlight. That name also being one of the company's brands. The estate was much loved and demand was, and still is, very high for one of the homes.

Cadbury Brothers did much the same with their town of Bourneville, now a district of Birmingham, (I think,) and again, the homes were so aesthetically designed, the layout and greenery so easy on the eye, that those homes are also in great demand.
Bourneville doesn't have a single pub, not even to this day. The Cadbury brothers were quakers, and temperence was the order of the day.

There are other such towns scattered around the UK, the towns that make up The Potteries, spring to mind. This is where Josiah Wedgwood set up his business.

I'll be interested to know what The American version of a company town means.

View attachment 9769


View attachment 9770



View attachment 9771





The mean houses in these photos are each two-family units. Rents were set at $25.00-35.00 per month per apartment. Each apartment consisted of three rooms, an 8x12 foot bedroom, a 10 x 12 foot kitchen and a 10 x 12 foot sitting room. There were extra rooms on the bedroom floor which the company let to single miners. Water came from hydrants I the yard which were shared by up to 25 families. Note that at that time the house in which I currently liveasleep eighteen room Italianate Villa on a fine street which was equipped with electrc light, running water, city gas, central heat and a well equipped carriage house was rented for thirty dollars a month, but then it was not owned by the tennant's employer.

Note too that many of these companies paid their men in scrip, which was redeemable only for rent of company property or for the purchase of over-priced provisions at the company store.

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

Vitanola, the pics aren't attached correctly.