Do any of you guys follow any type of hat etiquette?

[DamianM]

Hey Hudson. let the "social scientist" have it.
He just seems to want to have the last word.

Astronomers are not astronauts.
Simply, there are those who study it and those who practice it. The Astronomer can study it and theorize but he can never truly practice it and experience it.

 

[Mystic]

There are no "rules" of anything. There is etiquette and good manners. Those still exist for hat wearers, even if many are unaware or chose to ignore them. Just because you don't think anyone expects you to practice good manners doesn't mean you aren't being rude.

By calling others on the forum rude is also being rude and not in keeping with the good manners of the Lounge.

 

[cpdv]

Hat comes off as I step in the door and goes on as I leave it. It is certainly not on as I eat at a table even outside. The only time I leave it on indoors is at a bar or pub. I will sneer to myself at older gentlemen( 65+) who are wearing hats at applebees as they stuff their face but i will not say anything. With people my age I don't expect them to remove hats inside. I also went to a private catholic school and taking off a hat inside has been driven into my head.

 

[Mystic]

Hat comes off as I step in the door and goes on as I leave it. It is certainly not on as I eat at a table even outside. The only time I leave it on indoors is at a bar or pub. I will sneer to myself at older gentlemen( 65+) who are wearing hats at applebees as they stuff their face but i will not say anything. With people my age I don't expect them to remove hats inside. I also went to a private catholic school and taking off a hat inside has been driven into my head.

Sounds as if your private catholic school never taught you that sneering at your elders is disrespectful and rude.

 

[facade]

Not quite, good sir.

I contend that etiquette and social mores are socially constructed. That is, they are based on shared expectations. I contend further that actions have no intrinsic meaning, only that which we ascribe to them. I have demonstrated how these concepts are at play in society.

If one accepts these things as true, the one who is actually practicing circular logic is you, sir. Now, again, you don't have to necessarily agree that both those concepts are true, but thus far, nobody has attempted to disprove either one. Because etiquette relies on shared expectations, if the majority does not find something rude, it's not considered rude within that society. That doesn't mean that we, as individuals, cannot object to what society believes. For myself, I happen to to have a much wider conception of "personal space" than society at large. Somebody might offend my personal sensibilities by coming what I would judge to be "too close" to my person, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take it personally. Rather, I understand that that person's conception of "personal space" is different than my own. I became acutely aware of this fact while traveling through China, and especially Hong Kong, where sheer population density erodes almost all sense of "personal space."

I also assert that it is a given that social mores change over time. I think this is obviously true, given the variance in human cultures around the world.

So, if it is true that:
1) actions have no intrinsic meaning
2) etiquette is based on shared expectations
3) social mores change over time

Then yes, actually my conclusion is quite logical, and not circular in any way. Because the act of not removing one's hat is only the act of not removing one's hat. If nobody is offended by non-removal of hats, that action (or lack thereof with hat doffing) is not offensive. That social more erode over time to the point where most people do not find it rude to not doff their hat to greet someone.

Your argument asserts that an action is inherently rude, even if the target of said action isn't offended. This is the circular logic: it's rude because it violates hat etiquette.

I must disagree. The perception that etiquette is just a social construct without any meaning beyond what we intellectually ascribe is false.

We are not the creatures of logic we believe we are. We are ruled by our passions, needs, and instincts just like every other animal. We perceive offense/threat subconsciously.

Other than the 'don't show the hat liner' which seems a clear construct of some Miss Manners, the rest of hat etiquette has direct coloration to the animal kingdom. A hat on a man is representative of virility. It is the horns and plumage in the animal kingdom. It further adds height which has proven direct coloration to how favorably a man is perceived. It isn't a fluke that those in positions of power or authority have routinely worn some form of head dress even to this day.

In the animal kingdom many animals will lower their heads to show deference to the dominant male. In hat etiquette one removes the hat (simulating lowering the head) to show deference to another male. The hat is removed when you are another man's guest. You don't strut your way into the pride without consequences. One does not remove the hat for equal or lessor males. One may simulate removing the hat (doffing or tipping) as a friendly gesture to another male as a way of paying respect without the full act of submission implied by removing the hat entirely. The hat exists to draw the attention of the female. Once that attention is had, the hat is removed in a stylized fashion to further entice her interest.

Hat etiquette is not simply an arbitrary construct. There are subtle goals and meanings drawn from our baser natures. So even though formal hat etiquette has withered and is largely forgotten. We can still subconsciously perceive and take offense to the messages (intended or not) a hat wearer is sending out. So yes violating hat etiquette can be rude/threatening even if neither male has the slightest idea what is proper hat etiquette.

 

[TheDane]

Hat etiquette is not simply an arbitrary construct. There are subtle goals and meanings drawn from our baser natures.

In all respect I would claim, that you may be right and you may be wrong. The theory sure sounds reasonable. If you claim the above to be a naturegiven fact, then I find you definitely wrong, though.

Werner Heisenberg once said:
"What we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning."

- and I'm not quite sure, you're asking the right questions. That these rules seem to be reasonable to our basic nature/biology is not necessarily evidence. There could be other reasons, that you don't see, because you ask the questions, you do. None of us can know for sure, so I would find it more appropriate to express it as follows:

"Hat etiquette may not simply be an arbitrary construct. There could very well be subtle goals and meanings drawn from our baser natures."

 

[alanfgag]

Astronomers are not astronauts.
Simply, there are those who study it and those who practice it. The Astronomer can study it and theorize but he can never truly practice it and experience it.

Definitely deserves to be the last word on this thread. :eusa_doh:

 

[Denton]

Not even Alan knows what it's like to be the sun. I guess the astronauts can't have that experience either.

 

[VTporkpie]

I think everyone on here has made valid points and don't side with either, I will just keep doing what I do and let others do as they please. That being said, I was wearing my panama hat today when I went to a sandwich shop to eat with my wife. As I was leaving an older couple told me not to forget my hat. I thanked them and as I was about to leave the gentleman told me that my "mother must be proud." I asked him what he meant and he replied that he was glad to see a good looking hat and was also glad to see I removed my hat while I ate. I was suprised he noticed and said something.

 

[cpdv]

Sounds as if your private catholic school never taught you that sneering at your elders is disrespectful and rude.

You get respect if you deserve/earn it. Grow up with a physically and mentally abusive mother and you learn that just because someone is older doesn't mean that they deserve to be respected because of their age, and that they can be trash just like anyone at any age.

 

[Mystic]

I was going to inquire about the proper hat etiquette concerning wearing boxers, briefs or just letting 'freedom ring' when wearing a hat.

But, now I just don't want to know what base animal instinct wearing underwear with a hat represents. :hand:

That's just way more hat information than I need to know.

 

[Zombie_61]

I wear hats all the time,all over. If I had to doff my hat in every situation required by the arbitrary " rules", I wouldn't bother to wear one. It would be way too much trouble.

And this is the exact reason I often choose to not wear a hat or cap. I enjoy wearing them, but if they're going to become more burden than pleasure I leave them at home.

I must disagree. The perception that etiquette is just a social construct without any meaning beyond what we intellectually ascribe is false.

We are not the creatures of logic we believe we are. We are ruled by our passions, needs, and instincts just like every other animal. We perceive offense/threat subconsciously.

Other than the 'don't show the hat liner' which seems a clear construct of some Miss Manners, the rest of hat etiquette has direct coloration to the animal kingdom. A hat on a man is representative of virility. It is the horns and plumage in the animal kingdom. It further adds height which has proven direct coloration to how favorably a man is perceived. It isn't a fluke that those in positions of power or authority have routinely worn some form of head dress even to this day.

In the animal kingdom many animals will lower their heads to show deference to the dominant male. In hat etiquette one removes the hat (simulating lowering the head) to show deference to another male. The hat is removed when you are another man's guest. You don't strut your way into the pride without consequences. One does not remove the hat for equal or lessor males. One may simulate removing the hat (doffing or tipping) as a friendly gesture to another male as a way of paying respect without the full act of submission implied by removing the hat entirely. The hat exists to draw the attention of the female. Once that attention is had, the hat is removed in a stylized fashion to further entice her interest.

Hat etiquette is not simply an arbitrary construct. There are subtle goals and meanings drawn from our baser natures. So even though formal hat etiquette has withered and is largely forgotten. We can still subconsciously perceive and take offense to the messages (intended or not) a hat wearer is sending out. So yes violating hat etiquette can be rude/threatening even if neither male has the slightest idea what is proper hat etiquette.

I find this to be a very interesting observation. I can't say I fully agree, nor can I say that I disagree except to say this is what a hat has become over time. In it's purest essence a hat is nothing more than a device used to protect one's head from the elements. As such, logically the only "rule" of wearing a hat should be to wear one when it becomes necessary to do so, i.e. when you're outdoors and need to protect your head from sun, rain, snow, wind, or whatever. But somewhere along the way humans (affluent humans, in particular) decided to turn it into a fashion accessory and a symbol of respect in certain situations, and that's where instinct and logic often contradict the arbitrary (and sometimes confusing) codes of etiquette and manners (and laws, historically speaking) that humans have assigned to this particular item of clothing.

 

[Mystic]

You get respect if you deserve/earn it. Grow up with a physically and mentally abusive mother and you learn that just because someone is older doesn't mean that they deserve to be respected because of their age, and that they can be trash just like anyone at any age.

I really do feel sorry for you.

 

[facade]

I was going to inquire about the proper hat etiquette concerning wearing boxers, briefs or just letting 'freedom ring' when wearing a hat.

But, now I just don't want to know what base animal instinct wearing underwear with a hat represents. :hand:

That's just way more hat information than I need to know.

The choice is up to you friend.. but here's something to keep in mind. Modern man's favorite fashion accessory, the tie, is literally an arrow pointing to our penis. :bolt:

 

[Zombie_61]

...Modern man's favorite fashion accessory, the tie, is literally an arrow pointing to our penis. :bolt:

Mine usually points to my belt buckle; perhaps you're tying yours wrong?

 

[RBH]

enough is enough.....