Diamond Dave - Buco J-21

[handymike]

Geez- let the guy move!
He's gonna get better pictures up soon...Right A-1

 

[pawineguy]

Isn't that just common sense and surely its done routinely when altering lengths etc?

Perhaps, but think about the actual work involved. It would mean changing the front chest piece for the new length, the zipper length on the d-pocket, the d-pocket itself would have to be modified, the watch pocket on the d-pocket would change in size, etc... and because the d-pocket and the watch pocket are not simple geometric shapes, scaling them down (or up) is no easy task, unless you're using some sort of computer design.

For example, let's say that the D-pocket on a 22" front jacket is 11" tall and 8" wide. The jacket is requested to be made 23" long, an increase of 4.5%. Do you re-design the pocket to 11.5" by 8.4"? Does the watch pocket go from 3" x 4" to 3.14" by 4.18"? And, as noted on this jacket, since the belt loop goes through the D-pocket, do you have to actually increase the height of the D-pocket by even more since you can't move it up higher? Or, do you slightly increase the length of the belt loop?

I'm not saying that there isn't a standard answer to all of this, but rather noting that those changes are a very complicated process and some of these shapes do not lend themselves to an easy increase / decrease in size. Did vintage jackets each have different pocket sizes, or were they grouped together, i.e. 36 and 38 shared one size, 40 and 42 another, etc... it also shows the complication of pattern making when you are working off of one size jacket, as then all of that grading has to be done by the repro company. One possible answer is that the maker simply uses the pocket pattern from the next sized up jacket?

Another factor would be waist size. If I am very thin and ask for someone to taper the waist more than usual, what happens to all of those front shapes? And for those of us who need it to go in the other direction, same question. Why does your D-pocket look so small? Because I love cheeseburgers.

 

[pawineguy]

Normal and a long version. If I'm not mistaken. But it illustrates well what I meant above.

Good illustration. If these are identical jackets, with just one in the long, it appears that the solution here was to add the length below the pocket and allow the belt loop to attach below instead of on.

 

[Fanch]

In retrospect, I think without exception there is some aspect of every jacket I own that could have been fine tuned or done a bit differently. Well, maybe one exception - my Sheene.

 

[Monitor]

I'd still give a kidney for that jacket!

 

[Fanch]

I'd still give a kidney for that jacket!

Send me one or both of your kidneys, at which time I will send you one or two similar J-21's.

 

[Monitor]

Send me one or both of your kidneys, at which time I will send you a one or two similar J-21's.

Let's start with one, eh. Otherwise I won't have that much use for the jacket.

 

[Fanch]

Let's start with one, eh. Otherwise I won't have that much use for the jacket.

Dialysis is underrated.

 

[A-1]

Hi everyone!
I think it's a nice discussion about the chest pocket positioning. Well, if you're really nerdy about it, you'd probably have problems with my j-21. But I'm completely not.
I'm just very happy that I have a great fitting jacket in great leather and it looks simply incredible.
I'm glad I've found my leather jacket after an over two years quest.
I've had five jackets made for me, my non-existent patience was tested enough for a lifetime, spent too much money for me to count, and this is the one.
(I'll keep the BK until anyone else makes me a good offer.)
I'll wear it as much as I can and beat the $hit out of it. Haha.

However, please go on with your discussion. I like it like it is.

Ah, here are photos of the full jacket, more food for discussion:

Send more fit pics tomorrow, if my wife helps me...

 

[SpeedRcrX]

From those photos the fit looks good.

But I will wait to see proper photos before saying anything else.

As mentioned before the lightning is not great, the photo is taken by A-1 himself through a mirror, the best recipe for distortions and awkward angles.

But I'm glad you are happy with this one Zeki, that's all that matter.

And yes the Shinki is heavier than Liberty. The weight is similar to Vicenza.

You should keep your BK, I like the Aeronaut on you, it fits your style nicely.

 

[Monitor]

It's a spectacular jacket but I honestly wonder why did Dave lower that pocket so. Don't think there's anything wrong with it, just that it's a bit odd.

Dialysis is underrated.

lol Fanch! That's dark!

 

[A-1]

I wondered about that too when I saw it. But it doesn't bother me at all. I would've liked it exactly the same if the d-pocket was higher up.

 

[Sloan1874]

It's a spectacular jacket but I honestly wonder why did Dave lower that pocket so. Don't think there's anything wrong with it, just that it's a bit odd.


lol Fanch! That's dark!

Hey, if I could get someone to take the strain off my kidneys, I'd feel like a million dollars every day!

 

[Superfluous]

I'd still give a kidney for that jacket!

 

[Superfluous]

Perhaps, but think about the actual work involved. It would mean changing the front chest piece for the new length, the zipper length on the d-pocket, the d-pocket itself would have to be modified, the watch pocket on the d-pocket would change in size, etc... and because the d-pocket and the watch pocket are not simple geometric shapes, scaling them down (or up) is no easy task, unless you're using some sort of computer design.

For example, let's say that the D-pocket on a 22" front jacket is 11" tall and 8" wide. The jacket is requested to be made 23" long, an increase of 4.5%. Do you re-design the pocket to 11.5" by 8.4"? Does the watch pocket go from 3" x 4" to 3.14" by 4.18"? And, as noted on this jacket, since the belt loop goes through the D-pocket, do you have to actually increase the height of the D-pocket by even more since you can't move it up higher? Or, do you slightly increase the length of the belt loop?

I'm not saying that there isn't a standard answer to all of this, but rather noting that those changes are a very complicated process and some of these shapes do not lend themselves to an easy increase / decrease in size. Did vintage jackets each have different pocket sizes, or were they grouped together, i.e. 36 and 38 shared one size, 40 and 42 another, etc... it also shows the complication of pattern making when you are working off of one size jacket, as then all of that grading has to be done by the repro company. One possible answer is that the maker simply uses the pocket pattern from the next sized up jacket?

Another factor would be waist size. If I am very thin and ask for someone to taper the waist more than usual, what happens to all of those front shapes? And for those of us who need it to go in the other direction, same question. Why does your D-pocket look so small? Because I love cheeseburgers.

I don't think pocket sizing is changed based on the dimensions of the jacket. Rather, pocket sizing is dictated by the purpose/use of the pocket, as opposed to the size of the jacket. On the other hand, pocket placement should be adjusted based on the dimensions of the jacket. For example, on my forthcoming Himel Frobisher, the model jacket is rather short and the hand warmer pockets are low, near the bottom of the jacket. I asked Himel to add an inch to the length of my jacket, but to keep the pockets at the same height -- in other words, to add length below the pockets. I was concerned that, if the length was added above the pockets, they would appear too low.

 

[pawineguy]

I don't think pocket sizing is changed based on the dimensions of the jacket. Rather, pocket sizing is dictated by the purpose/use of the pocket, as opposed to the size of the jacket. On the other hand, pocket placement should be adjusted based on the dimensions of the jacket. For example, on my forthcoming Himel Frobisher, the model jacket is rather short and the hand warmer pockets are low, near the bottom of the jacket. I asked Himel to add an inch to the length of my jacket, but to keep the pockets at the same height -- in other words, to add length below the pockets. I was concerned that, if the length was added above the pockets, they would appear too low.

I agree when it comes to most normal pockets, but would you use the same D-pocket on a 44 as on a 36? Same question on an A-2? Wouldn't a pocket that large look out of place on a 36 if it looked proportional on a 44? (For the record, I have no idea what the answer is...)

 

[pawineguy]

Hi everyone!
I think it's a nice discussion about the chest pocket positioning. Well, if you're really nerdy about it, you'd probably have problems with my j-21. But I'm completely not.
I'm just very happy that I have a great fitting jacket in great leather and it looks simply incredible.
I'm glad I've found my leather jacket after an over two years quest.
I've had five jackets made for me, my non-existent patience was tested enough for a lifetime, spent too much money for me to count, and this is the one.
(I'll keep the BK until anyone else makes me a good offer.)
I'll wear it as much as I can and beat the $hit out of it. Haha.

However, please go on with your discussion. I like it like it is.

Ah, here are photos of the full jacket, more food for discussion:

Send more fit pics tomorrow, if my wife helps me...

I keep staring and staring at this new picture and honestly I think it would bother me more if he had raised the D-pocket so that the belt loop was below the pocket. The upper pocket seems to fall in a good spot in respect to the collar. I can see what others mean, but to me it looks good and more importantly I'm glad that you're happy with it. I especially like the way the arms look now, on a moto jacket you should (IMO) have those big wrinkles and folds which are a result of the arms being long enough to reach out to handle bars, but when at rest they will be a little long and form some great folds.

 

[Sloan1874]

Jackets are all about proportions. You can't have a size 48 and slap size 36 pockets on them!

 

[pawineguy]

Jackets are all about proportions. You can't have a size 48 and slap size 36 pockets on them!

That's what I thought!

 

[Superfluous]

It would be interesting to measure D pockets on different size variants of the same jacket.

I just sent an e-mail to Himel asking the question.