Diamond Clothing Buco J100 review.

[pawineguy]

I'm on Carlos on this.

And I don't think it has anything to do with the unprecedented levels of expectations, really, and the fact that there's so much justification and convincing going on in this thread is a very clear indication something's not right.
You don't have to be a perfectionist, know anything about vintage leather jackets, or have OCD, the deal is simple - if you buy three leather jackets that all have even pockets and zippers, and the fourth one is having an issues Carlos described with his J100, I'd say you're entitled to question it. Whether you should be bothered by it or not simply doesn't really matter because, having a comparison to draw from, these are imperfections and something that the jacket could do without - if for no other reason than just because there are people who notice and are bothered by this sort of thing. And that's perfectly normal.

I've said it before, but imagine having two of these Buco J100's hanging in a store, and you inspect them and discovered that one had crooked zipper and a smaller pocket flap while the other one is perfect; which one would you spend a grand on? Maybe you'll take one with the issues to the counter and ask for a discount? Or you'd just pick up whatever jacket without noticing the difference, it doesn't really matter but the point is, if both jackets had no issues whatsoever, we wouldn't be having this conversation nor would we have this many people convincing someone that they should ignore what they perceives as faults because pros outweigh the cons - something I personally agree with when it comes to this jacket but that is beside the point.

I'm talking in general now, this has nothing to do with DD or this J-100, which I think is wonderful.

EDIT: And another thing, I believe one of the main reasons we go to these manufacturers, paying the kind of money they're asking, is because we don't want to compromise. And yet, seems to me there's awful lot of talk about compromising in this thread...

Agree, and a few points. (Not picking on DD, because I love his work when he gets it right, but...)

1. Since this was jacket number 2 and number 1 was far off the mark, (and there was a "weird" conversation somewhere in there) Dave should have made sure #2 was absolutely perfect, especially with this being an overseas customer.
2. This is the third member of TFL that's had issues with a J-100 jacket from DD that I can remember off the top of my head, all overseas customers.
3. When you are just starting out, and given that Shinki probably costs him dearly, I can imagine that he can't just scrap a jacket and then start over. (but that's his problem, not the customer's)
4. The zipper tape color dye job is just weird.

At the end of the day it's up to each individual, and the jacket, despite its flaws is undoubtably gorgeous and fits very well. I respect Carlos' decision to hold onto it and certainly no one is going to notice it when he's wearing it. For me, it would grate on me every time I wore the jacket and I would just end up selling it because it would annoy me.

 

[pak]

Buying expensive leathers and focusing on the most minor of imperfections is a very costly way to cope with an OCD condition. I will look for this jacket in the classifieds

 

[pawineguy]

Buying expensive leathers and focusing on the most minor of imperfections is a very costly way to cope with an OCD condition. I will look for this jacket in the classifieds

If he dyed the zipper tape to make it look "authentic" somehow then that's a minor imperfection. (since it wasn't consistent throughout the jacket) If he ran out of black zippers and dyed the brown to be expeditious, then that's a shortcut no one should expect in a $1K jacket.

 

[Carlos840]

Buying expensive leathers and focusing on the most minor of imperfections is a very costly way to cope with an OCD condition. I will look for this jacket in the classifieds

Good luck with that, cause it's not leaving my side!

 

[Blackadder]

Seb, it's because their QCs are immaculate. Not that any of us here are obsessed with those brands though. And thanks to Carlos840, talking about price and product perfection ratio, I think Lewis Leathers are the best. But as always, some of the fellow members think that they are 'sissy' fashion jackets, unfortunately, I must add (Starting to sound like Master Yoda, I am.....).

Yes Handgun
Issue could be 2 fold
1) Improving workman's skills (which even the small scale manufacturer can do)
2) Keeping the faulty goods off the market thru QC (which likely to cost too much to small scale manufacturer)

the thing with leather is, you have to do it right the first time, with fabrics, if you do crooked stitches, you can do it again, or if that's too time consuming, you can throw away that part with minimal cost in material compared to leather.
with sewing even when somebody is very experienced, sometime things happen needle suddenly broken, fabrics getting pulled etc. I imagine on a hide with this wild texture, stitching it straight already requires extra skill, probably he intended to fold thing perfectly but since the grain is going into slightly different direction, then when he put it under sewing machine the folding line moved a little following its natural grain even when it was already arranged & secured with double sided tape, and since it can only be done once... you got a slightly uneven line.

While we demand a better than average goods because of the price we pay, we as consumer do not look at the various hidden production costs. It is easier for mass production companies to absorb various types of wastage and rejects than the small scale operators. The fact of the matter is the big firm has economies of scale on everything, so what if there are a few rejects on the factory floor.


We see imperfections all the time in these handmade goods and some have come to accept them and explain them away. The point is it has less to do with handmade goods than the market segment these goods are in. For example, when the fire department buys in lot the White's smokejumper, irregular stitching is very minor so long as it does not fall apart but when you buy some exotic leather to make your smokejumper into a high-end products, irregular stitching is unacceptable. Correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is companies like White's have a simple production line that produce boots on a few last and options and boots be it the USD300 Hathorn line or the over USD 1000 Cordovan semi-dress come off this same production line regardless of the consumers' expectations.

Take for example Superfluous's RRL experience. The various vintage leather jackets like A-2, Hercules etc are mass produced goods with average price back then. When they become the high end goods they are today with expensive leather material, the whole game changes.

 

[ButteMT61]

Good luck with that, cause it's not leaving my side!

I'm glad to hear that.

I have to laugh - not at the valid points made, but at the need for perfection in a hand-made item. Dude, if 50% of the guys here looked 50% as good as you do in that jacket, the place would be filled with happy campers.

That's not an apology for things that should be better, but honestly, if you sold that jacket due to the things I see vs how damn nice it is and how good it looks on you I'd just be sad.

While $1k is a lot of cash, the current market price for a similar GW is over $1.5k now. And every single custom jacket I own has some sort of imperfections that make me love it 10x more than an Schott or other mass-produced item.

Don't get me wrong, if I get a jacket and there's a 1" difference in sleeve lengths, or there's something fundamentally unusable about it, I'd make sure it was remedied. But this jacket looks great and as has been my experience in seeing old vintage leather jackets, they mostly have things like holes, fade, rips, not to mention misshapen pockets, collars, etc. from years of wear and weather. They look great BECAUSE they are so far from perfect. Dunno, I was keeping out of this but I just thought I'd chime in late and say when I get a jacket that looks that good on me, I don't look for reasons to send it back...

 

[Blackadder]

I think "perfection" is a relative term here.
For example, comparing the workmanship of John Lobb or even Alden with White's. I guess what I am trying to say is asking factory who make work boots to make a pair of USD1000 boots, how do one expect they would turn out.

 

[Sloan1874]

I think it's all about what is a reasonable level of expectation, and that's basically set by price. While I like the little tics that show that you get with handmade, it's exactly that 'little', and there is a point where you have to ask questions. Everyone has different tolerance levels, though. Personally, I don't get out a magnifying glass and drag it over the stitching looking for trouble when I get a jacket but I understand why others do.

 

[handymike]

RMC is priced higher than others, but they seem to deliver on the little specific details if you're into that.

 

[ProteinNerd]

I'm glad to hear that.

I have to laugh - not at the valid points made, but at the need for perfection in a hand-made item.

I have to agree with Butte. I'd wager that if we looked close enough at any jacket, that any of us have, you'd find at least 1 "imperfection".

I've had jackets with imperfections from Aero (uneven sleeve length by just under 0.5 inch), AL (slight bunching of the lining and stitching along a seem in the sleeve) and DD (crooked chest zips). So every high end manufacturer I've bought from so far has had issues depending on how anal you want to get.

Its simple for me, if it can be clearly seen or noticed when worn, then its an issue. Otherwise, just wear it and enjoy it.

The very originals we are trying to emulate would have had these as well!

I've had a few people compliment my jackets occasionally but I've never had someone say "dude, killer jacket......oh wait, there a slightly misaligned stitch on the inside sleeve zip, why didn't you return that piece of substandard crap...was it on sale? rofl

 

[Seb Lucas]

I've had a few people compliment my jackets occasionally but I've never had someone say "dude, killer jacket......oh wait, there a slightly misaligned stitch on the inside sleeve zip, why didn't you return that piece of substandard crap...was it on sale? rofl

That's a funny line but really it's taking the argument to an absurd place. If the average person even noticed Carlos' jacket they might say anything from, "Hey, nice jacket, is it a Wilsons?" to "Are you trying to be Indiana Jones?" What this site is about is not superficial observation but a careful consideration of outerwear products. So we're bound to note variable quality when it happens. And that's what the subject here is. And this instance comes with a history of other jackets with more extreme faults. Does the jacket still look good? You bet, but that's not really the point.

 

[Carlos840]

I have to agree with Butte. I'd wager that if we looked close enough at any jacket, that any of us have, you'd find at least 1 "imperfection".

I've had jackets with imperfections from Aero (uneven sleeve length by just under 0.5 inch), AL (slight bunching of the lining and stitching along a seem in the sleeve) and DD (crooked chest zips). So every high end manufacturer I've bought from so far has had issues depending on how anal you want to get.

Its simple for me, if it can be clearly seen or noticed when worn, then its an issue. Otherwise, just wear it and enjoy it.

The very originals we are trying to emulate would have had these as well!

I've had a few people compliment my jackets occasionally but I've never had someone say "dude, killer jacket......oh wait, there a slightly misaligned stitch on the inside sleeve zip, why didn't you return that piece of substandard crap...was it on sale? rofl

I don't think this has to be about perfection or imperfections actually.
For me it is more about craftsmanship. I appreciate good craftsmanship, doesn't matter if it is a car, a jacket or a chess set, if something is well done i will appreciate it, if it is sloppy i will notice it.
The fact that i have noticed these "imperfections" doesn't mean the jacket is bad... It just means my tolerance to them is lower than others.

Consistency is generally the hardest thing to keep up with, whether you are running a restaurant, a leather jacket business or a garage.
This is the difference between your local restaurant and a Michelin stared one.

All we have established really is that most manufacturers are struggling with consistency, which is normal considering different humans are building these jackets.

 

[CBI]

Carlos - turning out to be quite a thread! At least we all have some great options to feed our jackets needs!!!! Wear it in good health!!!!

 

[wanz]

The very originals we are trying to emulate would have had these as well!

Exactly. I own both a DD horsehide repro and an original Buco in steer. I would say DD's quality is on par with my original. The same type of variations/inconsistencies/imperfections/whatever exist in both jackets. I'm sure the folks on the Buco manufacturing line decades ago had no idea that we would be fetishizing their jackets.

I also have the Italian made LVC version of the J-100. Of the three it probably has the most consistent craftsmanship. But it lacks soul, so there's that to consider.

 

[Sloan1874]

Of course, Wanz, you wouldn't have paid a grand for an original Buco back in the day, so the comparisons don't quite hold up. The things we buy nowadays look similar but really they're two very different confections.

 

[pawineguy]

I think the thread has lost its focus a bit. We can debate the quality of the finished jacket, but... He used two different colored zipper tapes and dyed one. The first jacket was off by 2" in the arms and the chest was off also. (With multiple dimensions supplied) Even if Carlos likes the jacket, which he obviously does, his review is another cautionary tale about Dave's quality at the moment. Yes, we always need new options and new blood in the business, and I considered buying a jacket from Dave recently, but stories like this were why I didn't.

EDIT: And to reaffirm, I love the look of Carlos' jacket, the leather is amazing and the design and fit are spot on. Hopefully Dave works out some of the kinks in his system so that he starts nailing more jackets the first time around.

 

[navetsea]

but you pay those price for a made to size jacket, personalized, and options in cool hides the jacket would be made from.

the level of the workmanship then and now is probably comparable, they do "the best" they can do.... it's not like human being now has evolved with more steadier hand than previous generations

 

[wanz]

Fair points on the original jacket pawineguy. I checked the tape on my jacket. The main and sleeves are black. The chest pockets are both brown. The main and chest aren't typically visible which is probably why I haven't noticed until now. As long as it was done symmetrically, I don't know that it would bother me. It sounds like that might be the case here, but I don't know that it would be a deal breaker for me since they aren't really visible... and because the jacket looks amazing (I should have mentioned that sooner). Hopefully, Dave will take all of this into consideration and continue to develop into a player in the business.

Not to get us off track again, but after my post I was curious what the cost of a J-100 would be in today's dollars. I found a 1957 ad from Rin Tanaka's book advertising one for $29.95. That works out to about $250. I'm still processing that.

 

[Benj]

Of course, Wanz, you wouldn't have paid a grand for an original Buco back in the day, so the comparisons don't quite hold up. The things we buy nowadays look similar but really they're two very different confections.

Thank you!!! Please everyone remember this. Just because the originals had imperfections does NOT mean that one shouldn't worry about imperfections in the (much more expensive) reproductions.

If I was paying original rrp for these jackets I wouldn't mind imperfections such as the ones mentioned in the original post. But imo, using the authenticity card to explain away at best small imperfections (and at worst complete lack of attention to detail), while keeping the luxury price tag, is lame.

Keep in mind that even praised RMC is not without its faults, but they stand behind the product and that's good enough for me.

 

[ButteMT61]

Nobody is trying to convince anyone not to worry about imperfections. On the same token, don't try to get everyone riled up over them either. It's up to each person what their level of tolerance is for such things, and with that, let's just say we've beat the Shinki horse now and it's time to let it get worn in and age.