Der Fuehrer's Face

[Harp]

fftopic: (slightly) I think it's incredibly difficult for us today to understand the mindset of 1930s Germany. Just the same as we find it hard to understand the mindset of religious fanaticism of today or 500 years ago. We are of a completely different world.

It's easy to condemn someone for being a Nazi because we have the benefit of hindsight but had we all been patriotic Germans living during Hitler's time, would we have reacted any differently to the majority of the German people? I'm not convinced we would.

Weimar societal dissolution and the rise of National Socialism has long
been blamed on the Treaty of Versailles and post-WWI allied vengeance,
which set the stage for Adolph Hitler's meteoric rise. I disagree that it is
difficult to understand the Germany of 1930-39; afterall, it was not that
long ago; moreover the economic/societal situation was, to some extent,
reflected globally in a world-wide Depression. What has confronted
historians, economists, philosophers, and psychologists ever since is the
Teutonic mindset that allowed and even applauded the Holocaust; which
cannot rationally be ascribed to Versailles. Nor can Imperial Japan's infamous
Rape of Nanking be comfortably explained or rationalized today.
The Japanese simply prefer to ignore their Second World War legacy.
The fact remains that the 20th Century was a slaughterhouse of epic historical
proportion. And that much of this horror occurred in Europe;
supposedly the cornerstone of Western Civilization, is a cold fact that
academe cannot explain. The Cambodian genocide that followed the
fall of South Vietnam and African holocaust has been conveniently ignored
by the liberal university intelligentsia. However, with Tito's death and the
Balkan proscenium conflagration, Europe once again posed her question;
reflective of the past, yet present in the latter stage of the bloodiest of
all centuries. Now the world awaits a nuclear-armed Islam, and an incapable
Occident-whose post modern philosophy cannot grapple with truth
nor recognize evil, must confront the determined Orient. If the recent past
is prologue-without rational comprehension of human behavior-then this
century holds little hope for mankind.

 

[falcodriver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vCIEG0Bxc



Hacker

 

[Spitfire]

I have often wondered about this question myself. It's so easy being clever after the whole thing is over. And all the books are read. And all the movies made.
According to my father (born 1920) it was a matter of - call it fate - on which side you ended up.
A matter of culture, politics and upbringing.

He was in the resitance during the war and the nazi occupation of Denmark. But some of his close friends from school joined the SS to fight the bolchevics.
Which was agreed upon by the the then danish government.
In fact - at some time - there were more danes on the eastern front than in the resistance! Not something to be proud of today. But back then?
If you voluntered to fight for Finland against the russian invasion before the german occupation of Denmark you were a hero. Two years later - when nazi germany went together with finland to fight the same invader - you were a traitor.
Today my father has a very clear view on what he and his friends did, during those five years. "I never hated the ordinary german soldier. How could I? But I hated everything he represented. (The camps, the holocaust, the terror, the brutalization) And that was what I fought against.
I also understands - and can explain at least to myself - why some went into service in the german army. They were not stupid, brutal, warloving types. Not all of them anyway. There were some. But others fought for a world without communism. They fought the bolchevics. Just like the western world did many, many years after world war 2 ended."
But thats only an old mans oppinion. But an old man who were there, put his life on the risk and saw some of his friends die.

 

[Story]

Disney cartoon for learning to use the Boys Anti-Tank rifle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODm7HF5lFU

Note: the .55 rifle was obsolete by the time WWII began, which makes this film 'feel good' nonsense.

 

[Haversack]

Although the Boys was obsolete as an anti-tank weapon by 1940, it could still serve against soft-skin and lighter AFVs. Even today, a magazine-fed single-shot .50 caliber rifle, the Barret, has turned out to be one of the most useful infantry weapons for urban warfare.

Admittedly, watching the Disney instructional cartoon, I was waiting for a sequence in which Goofy would demonstrate its use in the field like he did in all the sports and drivers-ed cartoons he did. Picture if you will, Goofy in a tin-hat and webbing dragging the Boys, making all the mistakes he can while a Pzkw II goes back and forth across the field like a duck in a shooting gallery.

Haversack.
"There is no such thing as an obsolete weapon. The M1A1 rock still works."

 

[anselmo1]

Adolf Galland was an outstanding tactician and excellent flier. Werner Von Braun was also a Nazi but changed after the war just like Galland. Galland was a flier first and had heated arguments with both Hitler and Goering. During the war, he was somewhat of a rogue that couldn't be disciplined.

http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/life.htm

 

[52Styleline]

As many of you good folks know already, Disney Studios did much for the war effort, even to the point of helping design Squadron Patches with the likes of Goofey, Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck on them (maybe that's a thread all of it's own???, on how the studios got involved in the war effort). [/COLOR].[/I][/B]

One of the ships on which I served during the vietnam had been built in 1942 and had a Disney character painted on one of the stacks. Disney Studios did the design for free during WWII and the ship carried that image until she was scrapped.

 

[Blackjack]

It's easy to condemn someone for being a Nazi because we have the benefit of hindsight but had we all been patriotic Germans living during Hitler's time, would we have reacted any differently to the majority of the German people? I'm not convinced we would.

Very well put. Whether it be patriotic German or fearful of the consequences of not joining it would have been a tough decision not to join I think. I've know two men in my life that I've found out were "Nazis" in WWII. They were good family men and pretty decent guys. Both had pretty much the same response when asked about the war..."Well, I didn't have much of a choice at the time". My dad fought in the European Theater in the 91st but had second cousins still in Germany that were probably Nazis during the war. Somehow I doubt that they were all psychotic murderers. Hitler...yes, the average foot soldier, very doubtful.

 

[Twitch]

Adolf Galland was a man amongst men. He was NOT a member of the NSDAP nor were any famous fighter pilots. For that matter only 22% of all Germans belonged which was an embarassment to the Fuhrer. The only notable pilot that was an ardent Nazi was Stuka pilot Hans Rudel. And that takes nothing away from his score of 519 tanks destroyed or 5,000+ trucks and vehicles. The leading Russian aces were Reds we can assume but that takes nothing away from their feats in the air either.

I 1st met Galland in the 80s and Rall and so many other Luftwaffe aces. Galland was a charming fellow and a storehouse of firsthand information of history that was unique. He and Hub Zemke became friends after the war. Rall worked for US aircraft companies and lives here. In fact most British and American aces became good friends of German aces after the war when they met. Galland never hedged. He spoke his mind against Goering and the rest during the war.

Galland's Battle of Britain era Bf 109E