Decade that was the peak of hat quality?

[jbucklin]

I'm really glad you dug this old thread up Detective. Very informative, with words of wisdom from master hat afficianado---the Dinerman. I appreciate those final words which brought me great relief and comfort, being as I only have three vintage hats and tons of modern VSs, Akubras, and Borsalinos, which all have fairly impressive felt quality---especially the Bosalino Film and all of the VSs.

 

[gtdean48]

I'm really glad you dug this old thread up Detective...

I think one of our diligent bartenders merged the initial thread into this existing one....I, too, appreciate D-man's precise reply.

 

[TomS]

Interesting information, thanks...

 

[mayserwegener]

I'm really glad you dug this old thread up Detective. Very informative, with words of wisdom from master hat afficianado---the Dinerman. I appreciate those final words which brought me great relief and comfort, being as I only have three vintage hats and tons of modern VSs, Akubras, and Borsalinos, which all have fairly impressive felt quality---especially the Bosalino Film and all of the VSs.

Felt is just one part of the equation. The number of component suppliers is also very limited today. Custom hatters have to seek out old stock ribbon and have very limited choices regarding sweatbands and liners. This also applies to specialized machinery and knowledge.

For example take a look at this hat (1930s). The liner and sweatband are coordinated with the felt color. The felt finish and color are not made today. The felt and hat were made at the same company (in this case the same factory) by highly skilled workers + specialized machinery / methods.

 

[Detective_Noir]

one thing that bothers me is that a 50's fedora felt thinner to me and feels like its going to tear although i wear it everywhere.... what would you say the strength of the felt for a middle to high quality fur felt fedora during that decade

 

[DJH]

Hey, it has held together for 60 years so it probably will hang in there for another year or two!

Really the only wear your hat has to deal with is taking it on and off. Treat it with respect and you'll be fine. Wear a hole or 2 in it and you might be the next Johnny Depp.

 

[gtdean48]

one thing that bothers me is that a 50's fedora felt thinner to me and feels like its going to tear although i wear it everywhere.... what would you say the strength of the felt for a middle to high quality fur felt fedora during that decade

I have a 50's Stetson 100 & a 60's Stetson 100. If you took out the liner, sweat & size tag, I'd be challenged to tell the difference in the felt bodies from a "strength" viewpoint. They are much more substantial compared to my 50's Stratoliner but it is a Royal Stetson grade. The Strat definitely experienced more wear over the years.

 

[Detective_Noir]

I have a 50's Stetson 100 & a 60's Stetson 100. If you took out the liner, sweat & size tag, I'd be challenged to tell the difference in the felt bodies from a "strength" viewpoint. They are much more substantial compared to my 50's Stratoliner but it is a Royal Stetson grade. The Strat definitely experienced more wear over the years.

well mines a royal de luxe. Don't know if there's a big difference between royal and de luxe but it only has A few very small stains but no nothing or wear down done to it excpt a crease in the side of the brim where it had to have been crushed there on accident but no rips or anything

 

[gtdean48]

Your question was about middle to high quality felt. Royal Deluxe is one rung above Royal which is on the lower end of the scale.
Granted 40's & 50's Royal Deluxe is going to be a lot nicer than 60's & newer.
To me, middle to high will start at 3X & go up. JMHO....

 

[Detective_Noir]

Thank you for that information even though this hat is around 60 years old and if I take good care of it the hat will.probably last a long time in this millenia as well

 

[Detective_Noir]

Felt is just one part of the equation. The number of component suppliers is also very limited today. Custom hatters have to seek out old stock ribbon and have very limited choices regarding sweatbands and liners. This also applies to specialized machinery and knowledge.

For example take a look at this hat (1930s). The liner and sweatband are coordinated with the felt color. The felt finish and color are not made today. The felt and hat were made at the same company (in this case the same factory) by highly skilled workers + specialized machinery / methods.

is that long hair beaver felt? It has a very shiny finish to the felt

 

[gtdean48]

Thank you for that information even though this hat is around 60 years old and if I take good care of it the hat will.probably last a long time in this millenia as well

Most definitely. I have a late 40's Royal Stetson Strat that will out live me & have plenty of spunk for another generation, if they'll treat it right....

 

[Detective_Noir]

Most definitely. I have a late 40's Royal Stetson Strat that will out live me & have plenty of spunk for another generation, if they'll treat it right....

this is kind of weird to some people but when i die i want to have my grandfathers stetsonian fedora that i have to be buried with me... because i know that with out my care it will be thrown out anyways or sold or passed to someone who will probably end up ruining it. Also to say why thats the beauty of vintage hats, they can out live any modern day manufactured hats lifespan by decades if not more than that. What also adds to Irony is that Successors dont really hold up here... usually when some one makes something it becomes a predecessor to something that will become its successor... not so much when it comes to hats being made today, it feels like we went backwards in the process of making things succeed over the past and make them bad quality now... i blame HatCo for this

 

[mayserwegener]

is that long hair beaver felt? It has a very shiny finish to the felt

My guess is the felt is mostly rabbit and hare. The J. Hückel´s Söhne documents I have found list Rabbit, Hare and Nutria as fur sources. Unfortunately this Velour felt finish + quality is not available today. It didn't seem to survive much past WWII.

 

[DJH]

Not sure I'd blame HatCo necessarily, D_N,

Let's face it, fedora hats are a niche product for a relatively small market and the people that would be prepared to pay for a high quality hat are a small part of that. In order to survive, HatCo has clearly decided to focus on the western hat market and the lower end fedora market as well. If that is where the sales are, they would be crazy to try and do anything else.

Those of us that want to have the opportunity to enjoy high quality headwear, still have some very good options; great vintage finds plus some excellent custom hat makers. I (and many of the nice folks here) am lucky enough to have some good examples of both and I enjoy wearing every one. Actually, I'm not too bothered about what HatCo does because I have none of their hats (from the modern incarnation of the company) and really have no interest in them.

Oh, to your comment about new owners not taking care of the vintage hats, I bet many hats owned by Loungers live a life of total pampering and luxury compared to how they would have been treated back in the day!

 

[jlee562]

I would echo David's comments about HatCo. They're simply playing the market. Even among folks who are willing to shell out for the money for a modern Stetson these days, I'd bet many of them would be hard pressed to tell the difference between beaver and rabbit, or block shapes, or edge treatments, etc. The market for fedoras has simply changed.

The upside of this is that we have excellent custom hat makers filling the void. Although the variety isn't quite what it was back in the day in terms of varieties in colors, ribbons, and what not, it has meant that individual hat makers have been allowed to do their own thing and pick up the mantle of the trade, so to speak. I'd put my custom hats up there with the quality of vintage hats, certainly. The mass market for hats has seen a devolution in quality, but at the custom level, I think they're quite good. And let's be honest, adjusted for inflation, not so bad a deal. My Stetson 100, which was the most expensive hat Stetson produced at the time, and was of the finest materials and construction, cost $100 when most hats were $10-$50. Adjusted for inflation, that $100 price tag would be about $750 today. That's more than a custom from Optimo (although not as much as their comparable Optimo 1000 silverbelly felt).

 

[mayserwegener]

Even a custom maker back in the day (say the zenith 1900-30s) would not have been able to match the top of the line manufactured hats of the time. The reason being is they did not have control over the entire process from felt production to finished hat. At the high end (same with the low to mid end) there was intense competition between top international manufacturers (for example Stetson, Mossant, Borsalino, P. & C. Habig, J. Hückel´s Söhne, Dunn & Co. to name a few) to produce the finest hats possible (see World Expo and other international competition medals stamped on sweatbands and printed on liners).

 

[MondoFW]

Hello,

I've handled a few modern hats, and the quality is unmatched with the vintages I've handled and worn. Does anyone have an idea of when construction, felt quality and leather quality were at its best? I mostly know 40's/50's fedoras, but I sometimes get envious of 20's/30's hat owners. Those lids make mine look pathetic!

 

[Frunobulax]

Conventional wisdom is that quality was never as high as when mercury was used in the processing of the felt. In the US, that was (I think) around 1936. Steve (@mayserwegener) recently related in the "Beaver vs. Rabbit" thread that some European manufacturers used mercury up until the 1960s. If I have a hat from the US mercury period, I don't know it for sure. However, I have a couple that I suspect are.

So I guess it may depend on the manufacturer. Certainly, in the 20s/30s when hat sales were at their peak, is wen you'd think the quality may be the highest.

 

[MondoFW]

Conventional wisdom is that quality was never as high as when mercury was used in the processing of the felt. In the US, that was (I think) around 1936. Steve (@mayserwegener) recently related in the "Beaver vs. Rabbit" thread that some European manufacturers used mercury up until the 1960s. If I have a hat from the US mercury period, I don't know it for sure. However, I have a couple that I suspect are.

So I guess it may depend on the manufacturer. Certainly, in the 20s/30s when hat sales were at their peak, is wen you'd think the quality may be the highest.

I've heard of this practice. Surely wearing a hat from this era, even if it was processed with mercury, would be totally safe to wear? I'm interested in getting my hands on a hat earlier than what I'm familiar with. Why did we use mercury anyway?