Dead Man Hat

[bolthead]

.....if anyone ever comes across this lid, "Please" let me know, A.S.A.P.

What a great hat to have in my collection. Size 6 7/8 thru 7 1/8.

 

[scottyrocks]

Try this, at the bottom of the page:

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/Victorian/victorian1.htm

 

[Neophyte]

That is simply a short bell crown. Kinda like a small top hat.

 

[MCrider]

Aren't those pics from the ebay auction for that hat? I guess if you're looking for that hat in fur felt, then it's going to be a little more work.

 

[Neophyte]

That hat could easily be replicated by many custom hatters.

 

[bowlerman]

I'd say it's pretty solidly a low John Bull topper. One of my favorite movie hats ever, not to mention one of my top ten films in the first place. I have one in wool from Burgess hats in the UK, but I'd love to eventually get a nicer one.
Knudsen Hats: Mississippi Top Hat also appears to be a really close match and sharp looking rendition.

 

[bolthead]

I'd say it's pretty solidly a low John Bull topper. One of my favorite movie hats ever, not to mention one of my top ten films in the first place. I have one in wool from Burgess hats in the UK, but I'd love to eventually get a nicer one.
Knudsen Hats: Mississippi Top Hat also appears to be a really close match and sharp looking rendition.

Glad to hear.....I'd love to find something vintage.

 

[Sam Craig]

Google John Bull Hat. There are several costume shops that offer it.
Of course there is a big difference between wool and fur felt.
Expect the fur felts to be pretty price.

Sam

PS ... oops! Just read the previous post.
Never mind!

 

[barrowjh]

Dead Man inspired me to play with this resistol, taking it from a telescope to an 'amateur' flare crown:

Another Resistol I messed with:

You're better off getting one made right rather than 'messing' with it yourself, at least that was my experience. I think the light colored hat would look better with the leather hat band that is on the darker hat, and the darker hat needs a band that offers some contrast, a lighter brown at least.

 

[bowlerman]

That is some pretty impressive DIY work, barrowjh! Now if only those hats had a stingy pencil roll... Can you suggest any tricks to flaring a crown by hand?

I've never seen any vintage hats that come close to a John Bull-- their owners must realize what a treasure they are.

 

[bowlerman]

Actually... the more I look at it, it seems like Johnny Depp might be wearing something closer to a dressage top hat. Seems very close. I don't know a thing about equestrian events, but my perception is that maybe these are ladies' hats? Still wouldn't put it past him to wear one, and it wouldn't bother me any either, as long as I could get the bow on the left side!

 

[hatophile]

Actually... the more I look at it, it seems like Johnny Depp might be wearing something closer to a dressage top hat. Seems very close. I don't know a thing about equestrian events, but my perception is that maybe these are ladies' hats? Still wouldn't put it past him to wear one, and it wouldn't bother me any either, as long as I could get the bow on the left side!

It is very similar to a dressage hat, but has more of a flare at the top. The modern ones I've seen for sale are for ladies, usually and have the bow in back.

 

[hasselhoff]

In Eastwood ''Pale Rider'' the preacher wears a similar hat, wider brim, but similar...

 

[barrowjh]

For bowlerman - the short flare crown hats (as opposed to the tall stovepipe hats) were very popular and widely worn during the period 1830s - 1880s. I forgot exactly who shared that information with me; maybe it was Art Fawcett or Mike Moore, maybe some of that information came from reading about that style of hat on various websites. The TV character 'Paladin' wore such a 'town hat' and one of the online cowboy hatters offers a reproduction. The versions of that style that would have been worn 'to the opera' in vintage times were top hats - slightly less pizazz in the overall look. Very few hats of any kind have survived from the 19th century.

 

[bolthead]

gret job barrow, how'd you get the crown to bell curve, do u have a block?

 

[barrowjh]

bolthead, I have avoided describing that process, as it is destructive - where the felt bends sharply at greater than a 90 degree angle around the edges of the flat-top, this stress will leave a crease mark that is hard to ignore - pretty much stuck with your cheap-skate flare crown after doing this - you generally can't take it back to another crown shape. Maybe a telescope crown could hide the line around the crown, but you should go into this as an experiment - buy a beat-up cowboy hat on the cheap to experiment with - don't ruin a good hat.

The process begins with an outline of the shape of your head - I had commissioned hats from VS before, so when Art's plastic 'conformer' contraption was briefly in my possession during that process I traced out my head shape (as measured by the contraption) onto some sheets of paper. Use that head shape to make a wooden jig that will similate the flat-top and maybe a half-inch or so of crown angling down from the top. The jig should be more of an idealized oval rather than the precise shape of your head - just trying to get a large enough oval out of this. Saw this into two pieces on an angle so that if you succeed in ever getting this jig into the crown of the hat, you can pop it out of there afterwards.

The shaping process involves a lot of steam and begins with a vintage hat stretcher small enough to get into the crown (ie, get it past the sweatband, oriented upside down). With the hat upside down and the felt steamed (relaxed) press the stretcher down into the crown while pulling up on the hat from various directions all around (iterative) to stretch the felt, eventually getting the stretcher out to your head size. When you have successfully completed this process the hat looks ok from the sides and front, but from the top it looks rather humorous.

Now it gets tougher - you have to get that jig into the crown and pushed flat, lots of steam and iterations, pulling up around the hat to stretch that felt as taut as possible across the jig.

This does not work very well. Based on discussions with RBH about blocking a flare crown with new felt at Buckaroo Hatters under Mike's supervision, getting the felt taut enough to really 'hold' this crown requires quite a bit of effort - and this is with a proper 5-piece puzzle block. I added some stiffener to the inside of the crown to help it 'hold' and from a few feet away you might not immediately notice that mine is a cheap-skate attempt.

What I proved to myself by going through this? That the vintage advice about fitting a hat style to a face is irrefutable. My face is large from the eyeline up (large forehead) and my ears are not small - I need a hat with a medium height crown and the brim snapped full down across the front. All off-the-face hat styles look worse on me - no matter what the crown looks like - center crease, telescope, flared, whatever - if it shows much forehead then it works against me, not with me. If you don't get compliments in a bowler or homberg, then you're not going to get compliments with these flare-crown styles either.

This cowboy style is a risk for me - I'm probably better off with a fedora brim snapped down rather than trying to get a cowboy hat to bend down in the front (but I really love this Resistol anyway!).

And - oh yeah, if you do look ok in off-the-face styles - and really want a flare crown, buy one (or commission one) done right.

 

[Cliffnopus]

Great writeup John. It's great to see someone who has the sense and honesty to analyze their facial structure and determine what works and what does not. I have seen way too many folks wearing hats that they should never place on their head. Couple of great hats there too.


Cliff

 

[hasselhoff]

Jaxon hats make a wool replica of Depp's hat: http://www.villagehatshop.com/jaxon_deadman_tophat.html

 

[JimWagner]

.....if anyone ever comes across this lid, "Please" let me know, A.S.A.P.

What a great hat to have in my collection. Size 6 7/8 thru 7 1/8.

Perhaps this one?

http://www.villagehatshop.com/john_bull_topper.html

 

[hatophile]

Nice work, Barrow, I think you did a great job with those.