Dating Outerwear by zipper design

[tmitchell59]

 

[tmitchell59]

Note The V-This was a War time mark.

 

[photo2u]

Interesting! Keep up the information on the Crowns! I don't see many and don't know much about them.

I will be posting some images of my jackets with some vintage early 30s talons and some military crowns. You know, some makers like Cal leathers,trojans, Langlitz and some others did use the #7 gold spring-loaded crowns. Lost worlds at one point was selling them with their jackets. I think that was the biggest zippers in the late 40s and early 50s used in civilian garment manufacturing. Big zippers were always available, but for what ever reason some jacket makers did not use them often. It was not until mid 50s when talon, conmar and others began to show in to civilian jackets. The military, much earlier, began the use of #10 zips on their gear. Most noticeable in Korea.

 

[tmitchell59]

These zippers are primarily 1940s

 

[photo2u]

View attachment 378008 View attachment 378009 View attachment 378010 View attachment 378011 View attachment 378012 View attachment 378013 View attachment 378014 View attachment 378015 View attachment 378016 View attachment 378017

Have mercy! You're killing me... Love that Californian. What size is it?

 

[tmitchell59]

 

[JMax]

View attachment 377995 View attachment 377997 View attachment 377998
View attachment 378007

View attachment 378006 View attachment 378004 View attachment 378003

That Fashion clothes jacket is incredible. I let one of their cross-zips slip through my fingers years ago. Never forgotten.

 

[tmitchell59]

Have mercy! You're killing me... Love that Californian. What size is it?

I Love it too! Near Mint in Capeskin, the nicest vintage jacket I will probably ever own. Size 42.

Best example of a Sunrise Talon.

 

[tmitchell59]

That Fashion clothes jacket is incredible. I let one of their cross-zips slip through my fingers years ago. Never forgotten.

You have mentioned that jacket before. You don't have a pic, correct?

Fashion Clothes was a retail store in San Francisco. This jacket was made by Ralphs-Pugh. The oldest RP jacket I own, c.1937. I recall seeing another Fashion Clothes label, but don't recall the garment-not a jacket I recall.

 

[photo2u]

I Love it too! Near Mint in Capeskin, the nicest vintage jacket I will probably ever own. Size 42.

Best example of a Sunrise Talon.

YOU're stating this is your favorite is quite something... Some of the coolest jackets I have ever seen have passed through your very lucky and sage hands. This jacket must be a site to see. The jacket is spot on you. Californian are quite something. Back on the day when I was in high school, I saw this guy wearing a Californian half belt. I thought it was the coolest jacket in the world. A clean design with top leather and hardware is the ultimate in leather coolness. Sir, you wear it well.

 

[JMax]

You have mentioned that jacket before. You don't have a pic, correct?

Fashion Clothes was a retail store in San Francisco. This jacket was made by Ralphs-Pugh. The oldest RP jacket I own, c.1937. I recall seeing another Fashion Clothes label, but don't recall the garment-not a jacket I recall.

I don’t think so. I need to go into my detachable drive and see.

 

[Marc mndt]

Look at the lower center left of your jacket carefully, It appears from the picture the zipper was added later.

It first I wanted to prove you're wrong by showing you these pics...

But then I saw this...I first thought those were indentations were from the zipper teeth but if you pull it tight it shows actual needle holes. You're absolutely right, it is a replacement. Sharp eye.

This type of crown zipper was strictly military very robust and built like a tank!

This is the sturdiest zipper I've ever handled, new or vintage.

 

[tmitchell59]

But then I saw this...I first thought those were indentations were from the zipper teeth but if you pull it tight it shows actual needle holes. You're absolutely right, it is a replacement. Sharp eye.

Sharp eye indeed! I was thinking original too. Zipper replacement, like this, throw a monkey wrench in the jacket dating. On this one I don't know which is older; the jacket or the Zipper?

 

[tmitchell59]

Conmar imitation of a Talon.

This Talon is seen on a 1958 Hercules jacket.

This is the jacket for the Conmar. Looks like Steerhide Hercules unlabeled or missing the Hercules label from the late 50s/early 60s. Perhaps an early Oakbrook with red lining.

 

[photo2u]

Sharp eye indeed! I was thinking original too. Zipper replacement, like this, throw a monkey wrench in the jacket dating. On this one I don't know which is older; the jacket or the Zipper?

The jacket is older. Those zippers were made very late designed 30s but were not in the hand of manufactures until around 41. By the time a civilian got their hands was when the garments used in the war were discarded as war-surplus. I am just stating what a friend WWII pilot shared with me. About 20 years ago, He and I worked as volunteers at a museum in Chino, California. I have also restored many items that had those zippers. However, many things are possible. A person could have access to these zippers from the manufactures and kept some for themselves as souvenirs or for a special project. By looking at the pull. It appears the person was caring and committed to make something nice. This zipper was selected because the person wanted a bulletproof zipper for his special jacket.

 

[tmitchell59]

The jacket is older. Those zippers were made very late designed 30s but were not in the hand of manufactures until around 41. By the time a civilian got their hands was when the garments used in the war were discarded as war-surplus

Ok, I am thinking along the same lines. I've owned many replacement zips, but never one this dramatic and well done.

 

[photo2u]

I personally like to do it by hand. I think is a great method. Time-consuming but it works for me. When I used to restored items, I would try to do everything by hand. In those days, the servo motors in sewing machines were not available for a person like me. Jackets with a high stitch count per inch are EASIER to fool the eye. However, several other things did not make sense with the jacket, stitching and zipper. Bottom line, The jacket is very special. The zipper has been on the jacket for a long time. Who ever used this zipper was a leap forward in jacket functionality.

 

[tmitchell59]

I personally like to do it by hand. I think is a great method.

How much time is involved doing by hand? I do have a sewing machine that can do it. I'm going to learn how to replace zippers this winter!!! I have several jackets that I can practice replacing zippers. I'm going to do it!! I need to do something more creative than just buying and selling jackets.

 

[Marc mndt]

The jacket is older. Those zippers were made very late designed 30s but were not in the hand of manufactures until around 41. By the time a civilian got their hands was when the garments used in the war were discarded as war-surplus. I am just stating what a friend WWII pilot shared with me. About 20 years ago, He and I worked as volunteers at a museum in Chino, California. I have also restored many items that had those zippers. However, many things are possible. A person could have access to these zippers from the manufactures and kept some for themselves as souvenirs or for a special project. By looking at the pull. It appears the person was caring and committed to make something nice. This zipper was selected because the person wanted a bulletproof zipper for his special jacket.

This is great info, thanks for sharing.
I always thought the zipper looked somewhat odd to the jacket (it's a German/European jacket style). It came out the inventory of a Cologne theater.

 

[JMax]

How much time is involved doing by hand? I do have a sewing machine that can do it. I'm going to learn how to replace zippers this winter!!! I have several jackets that I can practice replacing zippers. I'm going to do it!! I need to do something more creative than just buying and selling jackets.

Awesome!! Then I can start sending jackets your way to work on. Lol.