Current USAF Issue A-2s

[DustyUSAF]

Gentlemen,

This is my first post, but I'm so glad I found this forum for this particular topic. I was issued my very first A-2 back in November and absolutely hate it!!! As a bomber pilot, we take the tradition of the leather jacket very seriously, and I am upset that after all the hard work I put in to earn my wings, then get through MQT and finally earn my leather jacket, that it is so cheaply made. From what I can see, the commercial Cockpit USA jackets are of a much higher quality. It's hard to walk around the squadron and see most of the other guys with the old Avirex jackets. They look so much better and are much more comfortable. They are called "flying jackets" but there is no way I would fly with this current issue jacket. So my dilemma is this- do I commit to this jacket and try to "soften" the leather some how, and if so, how? Or, do I try to track down an older model Avirex jacket. I think it's ridiculous for a military aviator to have to pay $300 of his own money for a jacket that he worked so hard to earn in the first place. I found some on ebay, but I'm hesitant to buy one online without trying it on. One thing I've noticed is that all the sizes are different. I tried on a Cooper Saddlery jacket at the equipment issue office and they run much smaller. I would imagine the Avirex ones are the same as Cockpit since they are the same company. Sorry for the long post. Any ideas?

 

[Phantomfixer]

Hey Dusty.... Barksdale?? your first issue jacket should mean something. Keep it, you worked hard for it, eventually give it to your grandkids. Wear the hell out of it. Sooner or later the right Avirex/Cockpit A-2 will come along. Buy a Gibson & Barnes. They are a good affordable A-2 that you can beat up on the flightline, and it will be made to fit you. Just my thoughts.

 

[DustyUSAF]

Thanks for the advice. I may look into the G&B. They look good on the website, but I've never seen one in person. Any of you other military guys know of any regs preventing you from wearing an A-2 other than those with government contracts? I'm trying to work out a deal with our RA (resource advisor) to see if he has any old Avirex jackets laying around that he might be willing to trade. If not, I have a birthday coming up in a few months! And yes, Phantomfixer, I am at Barksdale. Hope I didn't say anything that might get me in trouble!

 

[HackerF15E]

I think it's ridiculous for a military aviator to have to pay $300 of his own money for a jacket that he worked so hard to earn in the first place.

Well, you're certainly welcome to wear the Cockpit jacket you were issued -- nobody is forcing you to buy your own. Heh heh.

I agree, the 2007 Cockpit jackets are terrible. Look earlier in this thread for discussion about Cockpit having to switch to US-sourced leather on their issue jackets, hence the change in quality of the skins.

99 and after Avirex jackets should all be sized like the Cockpit USA one you have. A 98 Avirex will need to be one size larger, as will any of the Saddlery jackets (if you want it to fit like your current one).

If you really wanna go bigtime, do what I keep flirting with and have Good Wear custom make you a WWII-cut jacket, heh heh.

 

[HackerF15E]

Any of you other military guys know of any regs preventing you from wearing an A-2 other than those with government contracts?

You're "not supposed to" wear anything other than official issue items, but I bet that 69% of people would never even know if you were wearing something non-standard. Certainly many of my squadronmates have Pop's or Lim's jackets they wear every day.

 

[Phantomfixer]

There are pics of the G&B on the forum. They run big. A seal brown "AF issue" A-2 is a nice jacket for the price. I have their Hysterical A-2 in russet HH. It is 3 years old. Good jacket but I am itching for GW in russet goat with berry knits. Good luck with the RA, they do like to trade.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thanks for the advice. I may look into the G&B. They look good on the website, but I've never seen one in person. Any of you other military guys know of any regs preventing you from wearing an A-2 other than those with government contracts? I'm trying to work out a deal with our RA (resource advisor) to see if he has any old Avirex jackets laying around that he might be willing to trade. If not, I have a birthday coming up in a few months! And yes, Phantomfixer, I am at Barksdale. Hope I didn't say anything that might get me in trouble!

I haven't scanned ebay for A-2s in quite a while, but older issued Avirex and Saddlery jackets used to be fairly common there....especially in the "average" sizes. I have two '98 Avirex and two Saddlerys and didn't pay over $100 for any of them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should be able to get a decent, real A-2 for less than $300 and avoid the repros altogether.

As a side note, I can't help but be amused by the earlier current-issue A-2s now being considered "desirable". Years ago, when I first started buying those jackets, my friends on another forum used to snicker at me for buying "modern crap". They used to tell me that I should save my money for a good original WWII A-2 or at least a good repro of an original WWII A-2. I recall thinking that the new A-2s appeared to be of good quality, were inexpensive and were real A-2s. Why would a person spend a house payment on a reproduction jacket when these jackets were available for little more than lunch money? Now I just wish that I had bought more of them!

AF

 

[DustyUSAF]

Well my latest attempt to procure an Avirex A-2 from the wing was a strikeout. They had plenty of them floating around, but none in my size, which seems to be the most popular size (42R). I'm not done yet though. I have some friends looking at other bases for me.

Atticus, I have been checking ebay for a few weeks, and haven't quite found what I'm looking for yet, at least not in my size. Btw, where in NC are you from? I'm a native Tarheel myself!

 

[Atticus Finch]

DustyUSAF, I was born and raised in the town of Beaufort, in Carteret County. Now I live just outside of New Bern.

If you would like, I can keep my eye peeled for a good jacket for you. In my opinion, the 1988 Saddlery jackets are the best looking of the new A-2s. They were the very first ones issued and generally have great, russet colored goatskin. The 1992 Orchards were the most like WWII jackets. They are cut slim, built like tanks and have great scalloped pocket flaps. The Avirex A-2s are very dark seal and are more generously cut...very comfortable and wearable.

Here's a color comparison of a Saddlery, Orchard and Avirex A-2. The Avirex is at the bottom.

AF

 

[HackerF15E]

The key to eBay is just patience.

 

[Treetopflyer]

I am not sure about the Air Force, but in the Navy a lot of guys buy commercial leather jackets and wear them all the time. No one ever says anything about it. Probably because most pilots don't know the intricacis of the jacket. I would say that more than half of the commercial jackets that I have seen are not MILSPEC (I use that term loosely). The biggest give away for the G-1 is the side entry pockets. The MILSPEC does not have them. With that said, not very many pilots wear their leather jackets in the cockpit. I am not one of those people. I wear the hell out of my issued leather jacket. Say what you want about the Excelled brand current issue, but it has held up very well over the past eight years of preflights and many many hours in the cockpit. I do however plan on buying a G&B this spring when I go out to San Diego. I have been in their showroom before and they have some of the best quality jackets I have seen and the customer service to go with it. They carry the current G-1 design but with an actual mouton collar and it is made out of goatskin, very old school. I am sure that you could find a current issue A-2 of excellent quality there. Although, I agree with you in that we should not have to pay for our own flight gear and that especially includes the leather jacket.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I haven't scanned ebay for A-2s in quite a while, but older issued Avirex and Saddlery jackets used to be fairly common there....especially in the "average" sizes. I have two '98 Avirex and two Saddlerys and didn't pay over $100 for any of them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should be able to get a decent, real A-2 for less than $300 and avoid the repros altogether.

As a side note, I can't help but be amused by the earlier current-issue A-2s now being considered "desirable". Years ago, when I first started buying those jackets, my friends on another forum used to snicker at me for buying "modern crap". They used to tell me that I should save my money for a good original WWII A-2 or at least a good repro of an original WWII A-2. I recall thinking that the new A-2s appeared to be of good quality, were inexpensive and were real A-2s. Why would a person spend a house payment on a reproduction jacket when these jackets were available for little more than lunch money? Now I just wish that I had bought more of them!,

AF

Atticus, I so agree with this!! AF issue A-2s around my neck of the woods (Dover DE) are fairly common. They can be had cheap at yard sales and the thrift stores. Same with CWU-36 and 45 P---MA-1s and L-2Bs also. The Army Navy store sells the 36 and 45 P at 50 bones each some in new condition.

 

[Monsoon]

I was issued an A2 as soon as I passed my checkride. It was a 42 and an earlier model, so it was a bit snug. I traded up to a 46 since I wasn't sure if I would get the older model or a newer one with the underarm gussets. Turned out to be a newer one.

The leather isn't bad, but it's not top of the line, either. I like it. Most of the younger kids wear them all the time (spring, fall, winter). I wear mine just in the spring and fall and wear my winter 45P when the temp starts to drop.

We aren't suppose to wear them in flight, but a lot of guys do (I have on several occasions). I know when flying combat no one even brought them over. When I had to wear a flight jacket on combat sorties, I usually wore my green CWU-45 or a nomex tanker jacket (this was issued to us when the war first started while in theater). I like the tanker because it's warm, and the tan CWU-45P look like they are some cheap disco jacket.

 

[Stearmen]

Modern Tanker Jacket

nomex tanker jacket (this was issued to us when the war first started while in theater). I like the tanker because it's warm.

Those modern Tanker jackets are nice, soft and warm! Unfortunately mine is worn through in the lining, and for some reason, it is now too tight on me! But a great flying jacket, and indeed, the Army Aviators have their own version.

 

[HackerF15E]

or a nomex tanker jacket (this was issued to us when the war first started while in theater).

Which one is a "tanker" jacket? Is that the one that is similar to the CWU jackets in terms of design, but is made of the flight suit material rather than the shiny stuff the 36 and 45 are made of? It's got a big horizontal opening across the back with a velcro closure (for I don't know what purpose..)?

If so, I was issued one of these back in the early days of OIF, and all I remember was wishing that I could trade it for a "real" flight jacket ASAP! haha

 

[Monsoon]

This was made of a normal fabric, not flight jacket material. I liked it a lot better than the shiny "disco" CWU jacket I was issued. Considering how things have changed, the "uniform Nazis" would probably not let me wear it!

The opening in the back a rescue strap. Tankers have a fabric "handle" on the back of their coveralls to help pull them out of a burning vehicle. The opening was so that they could feed that handle thru, making it easier to grasp.

 

[Stearmen]

This was made of a normal fabric, not flight jacket material. I liked it a lot better than the shiny "disco" CWU jacket I was issued. Considering how things have changed, the "uniform Nazis" would probably not let me wear it!

The opening in the back a rescue strap. Tankers have a fabric "handle" on the back of their coveralls to help pull them out of a burning vehicle. The opening was so that they could feed that handle thru, making it easier to grasp.

That is what mine is, they are made of Nomex and feal just like the flight suits. I need to order one, they are not hard to find. It has been cold here, so mine is hanging on my office chair, inside out with the liner against my back, nice and toasty!

 

[Monsoon]

I was trying to find mine a few days ago. It might have been a "flight suit"-like fabric. I know it had the quilted liner like a winter flight jacket, but the collar was pointed and the pockets were of a different design.

 

[HackerF15E]

So, by "tanker" you mean "Army tank driver"...not a reference to gas-passers.

 

[Monsoon]

So, by "tanker" you mean "Army tank driver"...not a reference to gas-passers.

LOL! Yep, those tankers!