Crashing the Gate

[Miss Neecerie]

If I'm asked to do an event like this, it's not a jolly ride up and down. It's setting up a scenario and sticking to where I've said I'll be, doing what I'm supposed to do and interacting with the public - the paying public.

And yes, the people involved are often rude and bolshy when confronted. I hope it's from a sense of shame, but I doubt it.

Been there done that....also coincidentally on a train ride. Not sure how the 'add a bit of authenticity' people can be doing that if they are off in other areas where no paying guests are....well until the food comes out anyhow.

I just think its actually tragic and do sometimes wish that these folks would actually be told 'no' to enough events and things that they either figured it out, or just were not allowed to come out unless they actually paid.

 

[Paisley]

This reminds me of what someone once said about Woodstock: it was free in the sense that living with your parents is free.

 

[Undertow]

I have to make a confession:

I've been known to invite myself to events, receptions, etc., or otherwise let myself into backstage rooms, off-limits areas, etc., without even the slightest moral/ethical qualm.

However, I do not take these situations for granted and I do my best to present myself as an individual worthy of attendance. If I'm asked to leave, I graciously bow out the front door. And while I'm in attendance, I don't gulp down the free booze or fill my craw with free shrimp; quite the opposite in fact. 90% of my motivation is to act as an observer.

Of course, I'm not referring to events such as movies (I don't movie hop), concerts, or events the rely specifically on a money-for-service format because I consider that to be downright cheating.

I guess I feel that as long as I'm not hurting anyone (monetarily or otherwise) then I can indulge in observing things I don't normally get to see. Call it the Indiana Jones syndrome, if you will. I do understand your concerns, however, and I can say with certainty, I do my best to NOT be a freeloader.

 

[Canadian]

A few months ago, I was an usher at a local concert. People would come and say, "I haven't got a ticket, but my brother is the conductor." or "I'm here to pick up an elderly relative, can I go stand at the rail.".

The head usher had a terrific way to handle it. She reserved tickets in the back row ahead of time and sold them to these latecomers or freeloaders at the same rate anybody else would pay. Most people were shamed into forking over the 20 bucks rather than leave.

Something about concerts (I'm a musician and my girlfriend is one too, and we attend lots of concerts of all stripes). I was once at a jazz concert where a well known barfly showed up. It was in the basement of his favorite bar (the concert was) and cover was 2 dollars. He said, "I am a homosexual. If you don't let me in for free, I'll tell my friends and they'll never come back.".

I don't think he remembered what he said within about 5 minutes.

Something that's not quite freeloading, but what do you all think about a concert at a restaurant where people will make dinner reservations immediately prior to an expensive concert and hope to see the show. Happens all the time locally, and when I went to Montreal, I saw part of the Melania Fiona show at Time Supper Club because my dad and I came late for supper. We didn't even know there was a concert, but we were invited to stay but didn't. Our bill was about 150 total for 2 guys, so we weren't trying to be cheap, but I felt like a heel to be eating while bottle service is going on and all sorts of TFBs are walking about. After all, hanging onto a table from 10PM to 1AM while there are crowds of standees each willing to pay 150 for a seat and a bottle of French champagne seems kind of unfair if all you're having is a 45 dollar steak.



Thomas

 

[vintage_jayhawk]

What really bugs me is the indignation when these type of people are asked to leave. They have no excuse to be there, but how dare you throw them out. It's really a downer for those of us who pay/donate to enjoy the event.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

This reminds me of the characters I mentioned over on the Ralph Lauren thread - the young poser hippies who seem to take pride in how much they stink, and how much they can get for nothing. A local, very nice art gallery hosts monthly receptions, complete with free champagne in real glasses, and food. Of course it's not an event one pays to attend, but one does like to look smart, show an interest in the art, and perhaps make a purchase now and then to support the community. These very non-subtle folks began swarming the events, standing obtrusively in front of the food tables, making no secret of their intent to eat their fill (and nauseate the rest of us with their stench).
They were eventually asked to leave by the staff, and apparently banned from the establishment. I presume the reason they were given is their odor, for at the next monthly opening, some of them had set up a table across the street, donned button down shirts and ties, promoting some sort of bitter, tongue-in-cheek campaign about keeping the neighborhood smelling nice. Even to the extent of giving away free samples of deodorant!
I still don't know who they thought they were laughing at, but I smiled innocently, didn't let on that I knew who they were and what had happened, took my free deodorant and carried on to mingle with the more respectful art patrons.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

This reminds me of the characters I mentioned over on the Ralph Lauren thread - the young poser hippies who seem to take pride in how much they stink, and how much they can get for nothing.

Oddly enough....I see this more in vintage people around here....

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

Well Miss Neecerie, as the product of depression Okies on one side, and Scots Yankees on the other, I am no stranger to being frugal, and taking pride in it. I suppose the big difference (other than I regularly bathe both my clothes and myself) would be that I don't carry a sense of derision toward people who spend more money than I do.

I notice that some (not all) of the freegan types around here feel they are oh so superior to people who pay for stuff. However, perhaps they should just quietly, gratefully take what they can and appreciate it; without the real paying customers, these markets, restaurants, coffee houses, etc. wouldn't long be the source of free castoffs, would they?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I still don't know who they thought they were laughing at, but I smiled innocently, didn't let on that I knew who they were and what had happened, took my free deodorant and carried on to mingle with the more respectful art patrons.

This is something I don't get either -- this pointless stick-it-to-the-man-no-matter-what jackassery that stands for no principle other than to offend and annoy. We have a very busy art-gallery crowd here, and I think if such types tried to pull any of that stuff during one of our local openings, they'd have spent the night in the jug, complete with a free disinfectant shower.

I may be a bit biased, though -- a few months back some creatively-dressed hippie types at a concert stole a brass ornament from our lobby and left a bare steel bolt protruding where it could have really hurt someone. We ended up having to spend a nice hunk of change to replace the ornament, which left an extremely bad taste all around. And yes, it's the kids who do this kind of crap -- we don't have any gate-crashing/ornament-stealing/booze-sneaking going on with our 60-and-70-year old opera crowds.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Oddly enough....I see this more in vintage people around here....

Could be its own thread: "Vintage People Who (Physically) Stink." Beauregard comes first, since he's been around longest.


Seriously, it's real and and it's nasty. Dumpster diving for vintage clothes is one thing: not cleaning those clothes (or bathing!) is another.


.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

This is something I don't get either -- this pointless stick-it-to-the-man-no-matter-what jackassery that stands for no principle other than to offend and annoy. We have a very busy art-gallery crowd here, and I think if such types tried to pull any of that stuff during one of our local openings, they'd have spent the night in the jug, complete with a free disinfectant shower.

I like the sound of that disinfectant shower! Sadly, this gang still roams the 'hood, appearing at all free concerts and the hip coffee house's holiday and birthday bashes, where wonderful homemade food can be had, along with a keg of beer. They feel like they're achieving something, or making a profound statement, but as Paisley said, "it's free like living with your parents."
Someone always has to pay.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I notice that some (not all) of the freegan types around here feel they are oh so superior to people who pay for stuff. However, perhaps they should just quietly, gratefully take what they can and appreciate it; without the real paying customers, these markets, restaurants, coffee houses, etc. wouldn't long be the source of free castoffs, would they?

In the late 1990s, it helped to kill most of the swing dance/lindy hop venues in Los Angeles. Dancers brought their own water bottles to the clubs and refused to shell out anything beyond the cover fee.



.

 

[Feraud]

I've heard this is a current problem at NYC dance events.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Sighs..

once again...as per the usual here...this has turned into the us vs them thing.

-They- do this...-we- don't. To be honest, I don't give a flying leap what -other subcultures- do or don't do. We debate the unwashed masses and their bad manners hourly here.

Folks...all these gate crashers I was speaking of....are the well dressed vintage folk you see out and about, crashing -vintage- events...


Yet people complain that there are no dance nights...no lovely events to attend.....

With such a small scene as ours...and smaller promoters....who cannot afford to constantly lose money on events we would like to attend..is it any wonder fewer and fewer events happen?

They stop throwing them because people end up sneaking in, or whining their way onto guest lists instead of considering their paying for events an -investment- in our way of life.

But as long as people keep going....'oh yea...those other folks', they can avoid looking at what we are doing to cause damage and trouble and further shrink the choices for vintage fun.

 

[avedwards]

I agree that gatecrashers can be anyone from modern youths to well dressed gentlemen and ladies. Whoever does it is in the wrong, although if they apologise and leave when asked to it's not quite so bad as if they get rude.

A few months ago a thief robbed several million pounds from a Paris jeweler. The man was polite and dressed in a bespoke suit and fedora. That doesn't change that he committed a crime. (I posted a thread on this a while back.)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

They stop throwing them because people end up sneaking in, or whining their way onto guest lists instead of considering their paying for events an -investment- in our way of life.

You've hit the nail on the head. I have always paid for every Cicada Club and Oviatt penthouse event that has had a cover charge. Can't tell you how many times I've seen certain vintage people --and not penniless ones, either-- wriggle their way into these events for free. They know who they are.


In a just world, vintage freeloaders would never, ever get laid. lol

.

 

[Paisley]

If a significant number of people are getting into events free, it sounds like there's something wrong with the way the system is set up. The system should be No Pay, No Stay. Period.

The Mercury Cafe used to have free dance lessons and lessons were very, very crowded. The answer was to provide a free lesson with the cover charge to stay and hear the band (in other words, to pay for something).

 

[C-dot]

I think the gatecrashing and sneaking-concessions, especially at the movies, is a vicious circle. Businesses must pay for what people steal, and that includes tickets and food they do not sell to gatecrashers. To cover these losses, they must hike up their prices. That makes people even more determined to fly under-the-radar, because the prices are so steep.

That's why shoplifters always anger me so. They steal without thinking of the effects, like on the employees. When the company loses money, they start making cuts - usually on their wages, or benefits!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

When thinking of crashing, this is an example of what the organizers are doing to make the event possible:



Sample Budget Sheet

Total Profit

Hall
Band
Refreshments
Printing
Mailing
Total Cost

Cost of ticket
Number of Attendees
Total Income

 

[Paisley]

You could add insurance, advertising and hired help to the not-insignificant costs. At volunteer events, mentally add the hair-pulling irritation of getting people to help out.

I've known swing dancers to complain about the high cost of going out on New Year's Eve (they raise the prices about three-fold to $20 a head). I say, see if you can stay home and throw a party for your friends for $20.