Comparison: Schott 618HH vs. 613SH

[TacoBael]

I really like the SH for the classic 613 one star look and the snaps on the bottom lapel. I've always been a Ramones fan. I also like the classic looking buckle. I've handled the buckle on the 618 and it's a good bit thicker, heavier and shinier, right? I've collected and bought and sold dozens of vintage schotts and have bought and ultimately sold a good amount of the newer limited models. I was a bit disappointed and didnt like any of them enough to keep, seems you might have had a similar experience with them?

I also always couldn't personally stand how bulky those underarm football made the back of jackets look, but it's great to know they actually do give you a good amount more mobility. It's never been a huge issue for me not having a motorcycle.

Both look great in my opinion and my preference for the 613 hinges on it having a more classic hardware setup and less bulk in the back. Congratulations on both. I've been thinking of getting a 613SH myself for some time.

 

[Carlos840]

Thank you for your insight. I can assure you, I couldn’t size down in either of the jackets.

I am not after a “bespoke“ fit in a functional garment. I am with dress suits as evidenced by my latest “tongue-in-cheek” post in the WJAYWT thread.

Great write up and pictures, and very nice jackets.!
To me it's not about sizing down, it's about the Schott patterns having only 1 or 2 inches drop between chest and bottom hem.
These jackets are made for barrel shaped people,
For someone with a drop between chest and waist , if they fit you at the waste they are loose in the chest, if they fit you at the chest, they are baggy at the waist.
This has been my experience with all Schott jackets i own.

In this case, it fits you well in the waist but is a bit too roomy in the chest/shoulders.

IMO it's a much better outcome than the opposite, most people end up with a fit like this when trying out Schotts:

Which is IMO much worst.

 

[Tom71]

Great write up and pictures, and very nice jackets.!
To me it's not about sizing down, it's about the Schott patterns having only 1 or 2 inches drop between chest and bottom hem.
These jackets are made for barrel shaped people,
For someone with a drop between chest and waist , if they fit you at the waste they are loose in the chest, if they fit you at the chest, they are baggy at the waist.
This has been my experience with all Schott jackets i own.

In this case, it fits you well in the waist but is a bit too roomy in the chest/shoulders.

IMO it's a much better outcome than the opposite, most people end up with a fit like this when trying out Schotts:

Which is IMO much worst.

Thanks, @Carlos840, and thanks for your thoughtful points.

I generally concur with what you say, perhaps with one minor qualification relative to my own body.

I do have a relatively broad chest in relation to a relatively narrow shoulder width (courtesy of excessive sports until ca. 35 years of age). As I have a flat belly, I usually size OTR suits according to shoulders (size 42). This leads to a fold of the jacket lapels over the chest, when I button the suit jacket, but otherwise creates a good silhouette.

Leather jackets need to fit when zipped up, so a bit of excess at the shoulders is not unnormal for me. With a functional garment, I don’t mind at all, as a good fit in a tool jacket is much more appropriate than a “MTO” fit, IMO.

Of the two jackets, I did size the 613SH according to hem-measurement. Depending on diet, a 42 would only barely works, so this is a no-no for me.

However, the 618HH - as you pointed out - is plenty roomy at the waist/hip, so I did indeed size to chest/upper back/shoulder. Despite the seemingly generous shoulder, I couldn’t size down in this department either.
I did indeed even try the 46 in the 618HH, and it kind of worked at the shoulders as well, but was way too big from the chest downwards.

So, yeah, a pattern issue for sure, but for my fit preferences both jackets work well, with the 618HH having the edge due to better moveability.

 

[Tom71]

I really like the SH for the classic 613 one star look and the snaps on the bottom lapel. I've always been a Ramones fan. I also like the classic looking buckle. I've handled the buckle on the 618 and it's a good bit thicker, heavier and shinier, right? I've collected and bought and sold dozens of vintage schotts and have bought and ultimately sold a good amount of the newer limited models. I was a bit disappointed and didnt like any of them enough to keep, seems you might have had a similar experience with them?

I also always couldn't personally stand how bulky those underarm football made the back of jackets look, but it's great to know they actually do give you a good amount more mobility. It's never been a huge issue for me not having a motorcycle.

Both look great in my opinion and my preference for the 613 hinges on it having a more classic hardware setup and less bulk in the back. Congratulations on both. I've been thinking of getting a 613SH myself for some time.

Thank you. I believe your points make perfect sense.

Indeed, the underarm football create quite a visual impact to the back of the jacket. I am rather surprised about the effect. However, as they work magic for comfort of wear, I don’t really mind much.

I do like the buckle, though. Yes, more chunky and more flashy than the 613SH but with a very worthy-feeling heft.

I have really too little experience with the limited editions to seriously comment. I only have a few observations:

- I have had two tries at Perfectos in “vintage” and/or pre-distressed hides. I didn’t like the leather at all (too thin, soft and overall cheap-looking), and the fit didn’t really work either as the thin hide draped like a towel.

- the various Perfectos of the past three years or so with a back length of 26/27” don’t look “right” to my eye. I kind of get the idea of catering for a customer base that likes sleek silhouettes and wears shirts untucked, but it throws the dimensions off. A bike jacket that is so long that you can’t wear it zipped while actually sitting on a bike is an abomination to my mind.

- I did buy last fall‘s Shinki Perfecto (can’t track down the number at the moment) and I am very happy with it. One of my heaviest jackets, but plenty pliable and a very nice wearing and feeling leather.

- I mentioned elsewhere that I tried the brand-new brown over tan Perfecto/CHiPs hybrid. It uses a new Horween horsehide that is very, very stiff at the start and appears absolutely ******-proof. It’s pricey, and I don’t know about ageing, but that is one very attractive jacket.

 

[TacoBael]

Thank you. I believe your points make perfect sense.

Indeed, the underarm football create quite a visual impact to the back of the jacket. I am rather surprised about the effect. However, as they work magic for comfort of wear, I don’t really mind much.

I do like the buckle, though. Yes, more chunky and more flashy than the 613SH but with a very worthy-feeling heft.

I have really too little experience with the limited editions to seriously comment. I only have a few observations:

- I have had two tries at Perfectos in “vintage” and/or pre-distressed hides. I didn’t like the leather at all (too thin, soft and overall cheap-looking), and the fit didn’t really work either as the thin hide draped like a towel.

- the various Perfectos of the past three years or so with a back length of 26/27” don’t look “right” to my eye. I kind of get the idea of catering for a customer base that likes sleek silhouettes and wears shirts untucked, but it throws the dimensions off. A bike jacket that is so long that you can’t wear it zipped while actually sitting on a bike is an abomination to my mind.

- I did buy last fall‘s Shinki Perfecto (can’t track down the number at the moment) and I am very happy with it. One of my heaviest jackets, but plenty pliable and a very nice wearing and feeling leather.

- I mentioned elsewhere that I tried the brand-new brown over tan Perfecto/CHiPs hybrid. It uses a new Horween horsehide that is very, very stiff at the start and appears absolutely ******-proof. It’s pricey, and I don’t know about ageing, but that is one very attractive jacket.

I've had very similar experiences to what you mentioned.

I've had a per70 that was pre distressed and loved the idea. But in person, the leather was disappointing, the fit and drape were AWFUL. I couldn't believe how off it looked compared to my vintage 613 and 618, but couldn't figure out what about it was making it look like that. It looked like a huge crumpled wet towel draped over me.

I've had the newer style anniversary per 90 and the 519 and both were what you described as you described. They are way too long and look off. I feel like they would be ok if shortened, I liked the details on the per90 especially (I think conmar zips and a few western ish details) but the pebbled cowhide wasn't my favorite either, very soft and way more delicate feeling than normal perfecto leather.

I thought that Shinki model looked really cool and really wanted to find a way to check one out in person, with the possible intention of buying it. Would you mind gracing us with some pictures and your thoughts on it? I would love to see it in action!

 

[Highwayman64]

Op. What is your chest measurement? Jackets look good and I’m thinking of scooping up a 618hh for Black Friday but can’t decide on size

 

[Tom71]

Op. What is your chest measurement? Jackets look good and I’m thinking of scooping up a 618hh for Black Friday but can’t decide on size

Pretty much bang on 42” (plus 0,5” when discipline fade).

 

[Tom71]

I've had very similar experiences to what you mentioned.

I've had a per70 that was pre distressed and loved the idea. But in person, the leather was disappointing, the fit and drape were AWFUL. I couldn't believe how off it looked compared to my vintage 613 and 618, but couldn't figure out what about it was making it look like that. It looked like a huge crumpled wet towel draped over me.

I've had the newer style anniversary per 90 and the 519 and both were what you described as you described. They are way too long and look off. I feel like they would be ok if shortened, I liked the details on the per90 especially (I think conmar zips and a few western ish details) but the pebbled cowhide wasn't my favorite either, very soft and way more delicate feeling than normal perfecto leather.

I thought that Shinki model looked really cool and really wanted to find a way to check one out in person, with the possible intention of buying it. Would you mind gracing us with some pictures and your thoughts on it? I would love to see it in action!

Sure thing. Here goes. Size „L“. Despite the Heavy leather a very easy wearing jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

I really like the SH for the classic 613 one star look and the snaps on the bottom lapel. I've always been a Ramones fan. I also like the classic looking buckle.

Let me be clear: The SH does not come with the classic mitered buckle. It comes with a probably physically superior heavy square buckle. But I prefer the classic buckle too so I paid the factory to switch mine out. (Just letting you know so you don't order and get disappointed by a different buckle than you expected.)

Tom's came with the mitered buckle as a very happy mistake lol.

 

[TacoBael]

@Aloysius wow, this is an interesting and happy accident that they put the older style buckle on Tom's.

@Tom71 Thank you for sharing! Love the luster of the Shinki hide and it fits you fantastically. Beautiful jacket!

A few years ago I bought a FineCreek Leon Custom 1.3mm (based on the 613 pattern) and the shinki on that is pretty nice, but doesn't have this same texture and sheen. The pattern similar in length to the 519 (long in my opinion) and pulls the shoulders forward too much for my taste. Which is why I'm looking back at the 613SH again.

 

[Aloysius]

@Aloysius wow, this is an interesting and happy accident that they put the older style buckle on Tom's.

That said, they only charged me like $40 for the old fashioned buckle so it’s easy to get. I’ll put the square one on a belt at some point, maybe a garrison belt for my CHP.