Color comparison help..

[TheDane]

PS: When it comes to felt/ribbon combos, Rabbit has made some outstanding comparisons. Have a dig - and have a deep one! (Rabbit, you are a pearl!)

 

[TheDane]

- and by the way, what is "medium grey"? This is 40% grey:

- and that's a little lighter than "medium grey". I wonder if "medium grey" is what you call "medium grey"? I don't think Art's Steel is really a "dark grey with blue undertones". It's actually quite medium grey with some blue undertones

 

[ProfCharles]

Several great points Dane.
While it's hard to define what medium grey is, lighting plays a big factor. However, under equal lighting conditions, you can tell when a grey is light and when it's dark. I define dark by how close it appears almost black. I don't think steel is a medium because any darker and could almost pass for black. Looking at Art's felts, Midnight is the only color that comes close to black.

 

[jlee562]

I really don't think steel is that close to black. Black Cherry on the other hand...

 

[TheDane]

While it's hard to define what medium grey is, lighting plays a big factor.

In a way you're right - though lightning's got absolutely nothing to do with the actual color. A color has that color in white light only. The color of a material is just a word for which wavelengths the material reflects, when lit with white light. "Medium grey" is just a name without any specific meaning. A 40 or 50% grey on the other hand is a 40 or 50% grey, but it may be perceived differently in different lightings.

To an Inuit the temperature in Boston right now is probably quite hot - to an Australian aboriginal it's probably quite cold. In the same manner colornames are very personal and really quite useless, when you are not talking to yourself. Everywhere color really matters, they have very specific numbers, that can't be misunderstood. That goes for paint, stage color filters and ... felt. At Winchester or Fepsa (felt suppliers) you don't buy felt by named colors, but by numbered colors

 

[Art Fawcett]

I'm so confused... my Granite definitely has brown undertones but I thought it was a medium grey. LOL, you're right ProfCharles, we are going to have a lot to talk about.

 

[TheDane]

- and if you really think Art's Steel is "a shade of black", you have given the best possible example of how impossible it is to talk about colors ... and agree at the same time

 

[Rabbit]

Thank you Dane, you're very kind.

Prof.Charles, without doubt both you and The Dane have a keen sense for colors. Language is unfortunately very limiting here. I recommend to rely on the felt samples supplied with the conformer shipment from Art. I took my set of samples apart, so that I could see the felt pieces separately. In order to visualize the finished hat, I found it helpful to hold a single felt sample right next to a second sample that acted as a "hatband substitute", and then with the two felt pieces in one hand I held them next to suits.
For example, the Blue Smoke felt piece next to the black felt piece would imitate a Blue Smoke hat with black hatband.
Oh, and the charcoal felt piece does indeed work quite well as a substitute for a charcoal ribbon.

Here are some more comparisons. They were all taken in bright overcast lighting conditions.

VS Granite w/ silver ribbon versus 1950s Know Twenty charcoal with black ribbon. The charcoal felt on this one looks exactly the same as the Winchester felt, for all practical purposes:




A closeup of the Blue Smoke/ light grey flannel combination:




Another lounger (I'm afraid I can't recall the name) took this photo of a VS Steel with charcoal ribbon versus VS Blue Smoke with grey ribbon:




While I'm at it, perhaps you'll find this collage of VS felts useful. The photos were all taken in one setting under even, bright overcast lighting. The color rendition is as accurate as I could get, given natural lighting.



Left to right, top to bottom:

1st row:
Blue Smoke w/ 22 ligne charcoal
Granite LITE w/ 19 L silver
Dove w/ 22 L charcoal
Dove w/ 19 L black
Silverbelly w/ 19 L dark grey with greenish undertones

2nd row:
Sahara w/ 19 L dark mocca
Sand w/ 19 L dark grey with greenish undertones
Silverbelly LITE w/ 22 L black
Silvermist LITE w/ 22 L black
Blue Smoke w/ 17 L black

3rd row:
Powderblue LITE w/ 22 L midnight blue
Dark Moss LITE w/ 22 tone-in-tone
Black LITE w/ 22 L black
Oxblood w/ 24 L brownish
Mojave w/ 19 L navy

 

[ManofKent]

Great photos Rabbit. The only problem is I feel like a kid in a sweet shop who's already spent his pocket money

 

[Rabbit]

Thank you, Richard.

Some more photos of the lighter grey VS hats against various backgrounds:

VS Blue Smoke w/ 22 L charcoal against a dark navy chalk stripe flannel




VS Silverbelly LITE w/ 19 L black




VS Dove w/ 22 L charcoal






VS Dove LITE w/ 22 L black

 

[gtdean48]

I can get a side-by-side photo up over the weekend...Blue Smoke is a pastel like color to me where Moonstone is an earthy medium grey, one of the most versatile shades out there.

Blue Smoke on right of picture, Moonstone in the middle, Granite on the left as you look at the photos....
Granite does have brownish undertones where Moonstone has blueish
Indoor light...

Outdoor sunlight...

 

[TheDane]

Language is unfortunately very limiting here.

During my career as sound engineer I used to teach musicians and fellow technicians "spectral hearing" - the ability to evaluate differences in energy levels between 10 to 30 areas/bands within the human audible range. The "tool" is used in filtering/equalization, and the goal is to bring the person beyond expressions like "harsh", "fluffy", "horny" (as in: Played through a horn shaped structure), "boxy", etc. Instead you'll be able to determine "to much 500 Hz" or "too little 2 KHz" and quantify exactly how much. The goal is: "Evaluate - decide - and THEN correct by adjusting the correct buttons the correct amount". No trial and error - no guessing or fiddling around with buttons.

Even musicians with perfect pitch are unable to listen/evaluate this way, without special training. We simply don't have a well defined common language to describe what we hear - or as you point out, what we see. The method can be used on light/color too, but it can't be used to describe the overall impression - just variations between sounds/colors (where the one can be an ideal or standard). In other words: It can't be used to describe a color [huh]

Actually there is a science branch called "psycho acoustics", describing how our brains perceive and compute sound - how you can mask sound and "trick" the listener in a multitude of different ways. The color/light equivalent to that is what we experience when colors on felt, ribbon and jacket interact and seem to change with different combinations.

As always very educational comparison pictures, Rabbit

 

[ProfCharles]

Thank you for that comparison Dean. It helps a Whole lot!!

 

[gtdean48]

Thank you for that comparison Dean. It helps a Whole lot!!

No problemo....at least you get same lighting & same camera aspects...colors are hard with various monitors as well....